Author Topic: Minotaur is unbalanced!  (Read 6382 times)

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2015, 04:22:01 pm »
You are correct. The mobula and junker are very light and they move a lot when hit. Longer/wider ships are also effected more when shot far away from the center of mass.

The biggest difference is where you get shot at. The further away from the center of mass the more they move. So shooting a mobula in the middle won't do much but if you shoot the sides it moves a lot.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2015, 05:41:09 pm »
I want it to be a support gun with no component damage and enough armor and hull damage to be a good compliment to a light gun with explosive.

Without buff, and if every shot hits, it does less than even a Heavy Flak against armor. A mallet can keep up with even two of them. Even a Spanner can keep up with one. That leaves you one light gun on a Goldfish to break the armor AND destroy the hull. Believe me, that is a slow slow kill even if you do have complete control over the other ship.

Taking one slows a match down, simply due to lack of damage output. Even on a Galleon or Spire. On a Goldfish, it is dreadful.

Offline Lanliss

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2015, 05:45:24 pm »
As far as I can tell, that is its purpose. It is supposed to push people around, and breaking components helps it as a support. You are supposed to push someone out of an arc they have on your teammate, then break components. This allows your teammate to mop up the broken remains of the enemy ship.

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2015, 03:34:21 am »
Yupp. If you want to counter it, just bring moonshine and tap it for every minotaur shot.
If hes using heavyclip, its easy to tap against.

Il just say it again, if we had a stabilizer pilot tool, it would make more sense of a counter versus something like the minotaur, moonshine is our best option right now.

Offline Mean Machine

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2015, 03:52:07 am »
Short range really doesn't seem that great of an idea, maybe reduce the effect over range traveled, but I greatly dislike a short range idea. For starts, it would basically be another Carronade.

Yes it does make sense. Actually it doesn't make sense at all that it's long range. I expected this weapon to be defensive weapon against brawl/ram ships, to throw them of arcs when they get to close, not to snipe stuff on opposite side of map. There is no reason for it to have such a long range, because only thing it does from 2000m away is being really annoying.

It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.

If you only use front gun on fish, then yes, it will take 10 minutes.

Offline Sedrion

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2015, 07:49:11 am »
Short range really doesn't seem that great of an idea, maybe reduce the effect over range traveled, but I greatly dislike a short range idea. For starts, it would basically be another Carronade.

Yes it does make sense. Actually it doesn't make sense at all that it's long range. I expected this weapon to be defensive weapon against brawl/ram ships, to throw them of arcs when they get to close, not to snipe stuff on opposite side of map. There is no reason for it to have such a long range, because only thing it does from 2000m away is being really annoying.

It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.

If you only use front gun on fish, then yes, it will take 10 minutes.

That is what i mean....the weapon is better when his range is maximum 400 - 500m. So you can use it do defense not over 2000m

Offline Zirilfer

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2015, 04:27:19 pm »
Currently, I'm liking where the Minotaur sits, sadly though, it looks like a junker hard counter, which is not what that ship needed at all. For now I'm abstaining from the junker until I can find a build I like, and works against mino.

Offline DrTentacles

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2015, 05:00:13 pm »
So basically, the only thing that *doesn't* hard counter the Junker are Gat/Mortar builds?

Offline Indreams

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2015, 05:02:36 pm »
So basically, the only thing that *doesn't* hard counter the Junker are Gat/Mortar builds?

Add Hwacha builds. Hwacha spread is easy to miss junker hull.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2015, 05:26:53 pm »
Well, junker is explicitly weak to blending and decent against everything else and really good against gat/mortar.

But given how common gat/mortar is that makes junker really strong.

Offline Dementio

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2015, 05:46:40 pm »
Junker will/should be outsniped by Mercury and double Artemis and easily lose all components to one burst hwacha clip and at least 2 engines and 2 guns against one heavy clip hwacha clip.

Offline MidnightWonko

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2015, 07:32:39 pm »
I think the Minotaur should be considered around what guns will counter it and what guns counter it.

Presently, I agree that it does way too much damage for a weapon that so severely impacts mobility at such long ranges in a game where mobility is seriously a huge, screaming deal.

At its present stats of .44 shots per second, 9-sec reload, 4 clip size, 60 direct piercing, 175 burst shatter, it presently ranks 9th (out of 17) in armor damage and 6th in component damage (DPS, including reload times).  This all doesn't seem so bad, until you also consider that outranges the hell out of everything EXCEPT the Mercury, while at the same time hitting almost instantly, especially with the pinpoint accuracy granted by heavy clip.

While I think its range definitely sorely needs a reduction, I would imagine reducing it to merely 800 would suffice; this would mean it would be outranged by the Artemis and the Manticore in addition to the Mercury.  This would allow both weapons to counter it by destroying it before it becomes too much of a nuisance.  At the same time, the Minotaur would still be very much useable as a counter to both types of Carronades by knocking approaching ships off-course.

To be honest, I think balancing the Minotaur should not happen all at once.  Making a single change and then observing its effects on the game would give insight on what else (if anything) needs to be changed.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 07:34:42 pm by MidnightWonko »

Offline Indreams

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2015, 09:36:19 pm »
I really get the feeling the Minotaur was released prematurely.

I know its been in testing and all for sometime but,

45-45-45-45 arcs, the lumberjack-like look, carronade-like shots, no visible projectile despite the range, and the apparent damage balance issues makes it seem like it hasn't gone through the tweaks it needed.

I'm sure Muse will fix it in following patches.

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2015, 09:55:02 pm »
Maybe the minotaur should always behave like it does with heavy clip, then be balanced around that.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2015, 02:16:53 am »
I think minotaur's range and arcs up/down should be decreased, so you can counter that with hydrogene and intelligent piloting.