Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Sedrion on February 26, 2015, 12:12:10 pm
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Sorry if i write a new topic fr the minotaur, but this weapon is to overpowerd for this game. (sorry for my english)
First point is that the minotaur have a to long range. you can shot another ships from one end of the map to the another end. Other ships cant do anything to stop it. Is will be better if you change the range from this weapon to "short range" and change is so you can add the minotaur on a little weapon slot. So it will be balanced.
The second point is a question.
Why you can push a big ship better then a little ship? We tested that you can throw a big ship better than a little one.
Please balance the game .... it didnt make fun to play Guns of Icarus if this weapon is on an ship.
Yours sincerely
Sedrion
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Yes the gun os not very balanced at this time, there are many suggestions about possible changes.
I think it should stay as a Heavy gun, maybe a light gun equivalent could be added but there is a shortage on heavy weapons and this gun helps fill that.
Range: I think it would work well as a short range weapon too.
Regarding ship size: The gun effects ships based on mass (weight) and its effect in relation to the centre of mass. Making "bigger ships" (I assume you mean Goldfish?) more affected as the goldfish has reletively low weight and a very long profile, making it weak against the centre of mass, all the gunner has to do is shoot nose or tail.
Where a Galleon (Big ship, very heavy) is still not greatly effected by the new weapon.. Unless you're using Phoenix Claw at the time of being shot.
Also the gun is incredibly effective against Squid, which is a small ship, so that's why I assume you were using a goldfish...
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Short range really doesn't seem that great of an idea, maybe reduce the effect over range traveled, but I greatly dislike a short range idea. For starts, it would basically be another Carronade.
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I originally assumed it was a close range gun. I like a short range idea of around 500m. This would give the ship defence against most dps weapons (gat range 450, H carro 425).
Like Kamoba said, the farther away you shoot it from the middle of the ship, the more it pushes.
A Minotaur gunner will shoot at the side of a ship that is moving towards the Minotaur, and the front or back of a ship that is moving sideways.
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A partial solution would be to nerf/buff heavy clip a bit. Give it 95% recoil reduction instead of 100%, and compensate in ROF or clip size.
Also, remove shatter.
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What Richard Lemoon said. That would make it less effective at range.
I think the bigger problem is the shatter. The gun really doesn't need it. It does enough already.
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It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.
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It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.
Right now I use it mainly for the shatter (depending on ship). What should its use be with different damage types?
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Honestly, I don't think it's that unbalanced. At this point, I'd much rather be pelted with a Minotaur than a Lumberjack from max range. Heavy guns are supposed to be scary and annoying.
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I see it's primary role as a long-range disruption, or approach-denier: A great utility support that the spire and galleon have been so craving. It does plenty fine as it is already.
But combined the push with the pinpoint shatter damage and that makes it waaaay OP with that heavy clip.
The shatter damage + accuracy (at range) is what makes the thing overpowered.
Nerfing heavy clip to 80% or 85% reduce spread would go a long way to balance this thing out. Then things might be manageable, so it doesn't have satellite-guided-railgun accuracy at range.
Also, people want to find different things in this gun. Some want more of an alternative main weapon. Some want more of a component-sniper, and some want more of the push for this thing to focus on. So it would be helpful to state "I want it to be like a " in your post so we don't talk past each other
I myself want it's focus to mess with the opponent's positioning at range more than their components, because that will keep it unique and not feel like a copy of the carronade/mercury. Right now it does both at 1800m, which is too much.
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Is there a way to do reverse arming time? Like the blast from the cannon begins to disapate after a certain distance that way it can keep a role as a long range disrupter without losing too much utility at the more dangerous mid to close ranges?
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I would like to leave the impact only at close range, instead of current where we have weak impact close strong impact far.
We should have strong impact close weak impact long range. The shatter is already good enough for long-range disable. It's basically a merc with no aoe but easier to shoot.
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Everyone who says this gun needs to do more, it is meant solely as a support. It is not meant to carry anything at all. You are supposed to use it as a disruptor, and it is not meant to do any hull or armor damage, nor is it meant to be used to kill. It needs to stay as a support because as soon as it can break armor it will be over powered.
If you disagree with that then please explain why, as I have not actually played with the gun, I am just going off the stats I have read, and the Dev fireside chat where they said it was a support only gun.
EDIT: Also, it should not go into light gun slots. Can you imagine being broadsides by a junker with double mino? Really, most ships would be able to double mino in one way or another, and that would just be insane.
And does anyone think it needs a name change? Minotaur does not seem like a name for a support gun. Considering the Roman-esque naming of most things (Pyramidion, Galleon, Chimera) I would not mind a mythology based name, just not Minotaur in my opinion. That seems more like a damage focused name.
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The second point is a question.
Why you can push a big ship better then a little ship? We tested that you can throw a big ship better than a little one.
Probably, because bigger ships have more area that are more off-center? A squid is almost like a little ball, everything is clustered together, but a Galleon has so much length, you can hit a spot so far from the center that the spin effect gets increased by a ton.
You can try shooting a Spire, it is probably one of the tallest ships, but you can't spin it as easy as other ones.
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The second point is a question.
Why you can push a big ship better then a little ship? We tested that you can throw a big ship better than a little one.
Probably, because bigger ships have more area that are more off-center? A squid is almost like a little ball, everything is clustered together, but a Galleon has so much length, you can hit a spot so far from the center that the spin effect gets increased by a ton.
You can try shooting a Spire, it is probably one of the tallest ships, but you can't spin it as easy as other ones.
ok i didnt test this but i think a lighter ship must be harder hit than a big ship who weigth more... or im on the false mind?
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You are correct. The mobula and junker are very light and they move a lot when hit. Longer/wider ships are also effected more when shot far away from the center of mass.
The biggest difference is where you get shot at. The further away from the center of mass the more they move. So shooting a mobula in the middle won't do much but if you shoot the sides it moves a lot.
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I want it to be a support gun with no component damage and enough armor and hull damage to be a good compliment to a light gun with explosive.
Without buff, and if every shot hits, it does less than even a Heavy Flak against armor. A mallet can keep up with even two of them. Even a Spanner can keep up with one. That leaves you one light gun on a Goldfish to break the armor AND destroy the hull. Believe me, that is a slow slow kill even if you do have complete control over the other ship.
Taking one slows a match down, simply due to lack of damage output. Even on a Galleon or Spire. On a Goldfish, it is dreadful.
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As far as I can tell, that is its purpose. It is supposed to push people around, and breaking components helps it as a support. You are supposed to push someone out of an arc they have on your teammate, then break components. This allows your teammate to mop up the broken remains of the enemy ship.
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Yupp. If you want to counter it, just bring moonshine and tap it for every minotaur shot.
If hes using heavyclip, its easy to tap against.
Il just say it again, if we had a stabilizer pilot tool, it would make more sense of a counter versus something like the minotaur, moonshine is our best option right now.
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Short range really doesn't seem that great of an idea, maybe reduce the effect over range traveled, but I greatly dislike a short range idea. For starts, it would basically be another Carronade.
Yes it does make sense. Actually it doesn't make sense at all that it's long range. I expected this weapon to be defensive weapon against brawl/ram ships, to throw them of arcs when they get to close, not to snipe stuff on opposite side of map. There is no reason for it to have such a long range, because only thing it does from 2000m away is being really annoying.
It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.
If you only use front gun on fish, then yes, it will take 10 minutes.
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Short range really doesn't seem that great of an idea, maybe reduce the effect over range traveled, but I greatly dislike a short range idea. For starts, it would basically be another Carronade.
Yes it does make sense. Actually it doesn't make sense at all that it's long range. I expected this weapon to be defensive weapon against brawl/ram ships, to throw them of arcs when they get to close, not to snipe stuff on opposite side of map. There is no reason for it to have such a long range, because only thing it does from 2000m away is being really annoying.
It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.
If you only use front gun on fish, then yes, it will take 10 minutes.
That is what i mean....the weapon is better when his range is maximum 400 - 500m. So you can use it do defense not over 2000m
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Currently, I'm liking where the Minotaur sits, sadly though, it looks like a junker hard counter, which is not what that ship needed at all. For now I'm abstaining from the junker until I can find a build I like, and works against mino.
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So basically, the only thing that *doesn't* hard counter the Junker are Gat/Mortar builds?
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So basically, the only thing that *doesn't* hard counter the Junker are Gat/Mortar builds?
Add Hwacha builds. Hwacha spread is easy to miss junker hull.
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Well, junker is explicitly weak to blending and decent against everything else and really good against gat/mortar.
But given how common gat/mortar is that makes junker really strong.
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Junker will/should be outsniped by Mercury and double Artemis and easily lose all components to one burst hwacha clip and at least 2 engines and 2 guns against one heavy clip hwacha clip.
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I think the Minotaur should be considered around what guns will counter it and what guns counter it.
Presently, I agree that it does way too much damage for a weapon that so severely impacts mobility at such long ranges in a game where mobility is seriously a huge, screaming deal.
At its present stats of .44 shots per second, 9-sec reload, 4 clip size, 60 direct piercing, 175 burst shatter, it presently ranks 9th (out of 17) in armor damage and 6th in component damage (DPS, including reload times). This all doesn't seem so bad, until you also consider that outranges the hell out of everything EXCEPT the Mercury, while at the same time hitting almost instantly, especially with the pinpoint accuracy granted by heavy clip.
While I think its range definitely sorely needs a reduction, I would imagine reducing it to merely 800 would suffice; this would mean it would be outranged by the Artemis and the Manticore in addition to the Mercury. This would allow both weapons to counter it by destroying it before it becomes too much of a nuisance. At the same time, the Minotaur would still be very much useable as a counter to both types of Carronades by knocking approaching ships off-course.
To be honest, I think balancing the Minotaur should not happen all at once. Making a single change and then observing its effects on the game would give insight on what else (if anything) needs to be changed.
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I really get the feeling the Minotaur was released prematurely.
I know its been in testing and all for sometime but,
45-45-45-45 arcs, the lumberjack-like look, carronade-like shots, no visible projectile despite the range, and the apparent damage balance issues makes it seem like it hasn't gone through the tweaks it needed.
I'm sure Muse will fix it in following patches.
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Maybe the minotaur should always behave like it does with heavy clip, then be balanced around that.
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I think minotaur's range and arcs up/down should be decreased, so you can counter that with hydrogene and intelligent piloting.
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I agree the arcs are the most unbalanced and seemingly arbitrary, i doubt they put much thought into it before releasing it with 45 degrees in every direction. Would the gun having only good upwards arcs give it a good place as a blender counter though? The range could definitely be toned down too, there is no reason for it to be doing what it does at max range. The offensive team is only prolonging combat by pushing them that far back and an artemis can probably still disable better at that range.
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I'd say I agree with most of the ideas seen in this topic.
I think minotaur would be more balanced having:
- less but more powerful shots
- either its range reduced or its firing angle reduced (I'd really like to see this gun as mid range)
- more recharge time (can be balanced with even more powerful shots)
As someone pointed out before atm it can ONLY be countered with moonshine tapping (on mid/short range, on long range you're pretty much just fu) and designing a pilot tool to counter a specific weapon with no other use (actually it would be a "crippler" tool) as someone suggested is just not right...
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I'd say I agree with most of the ideas seen in this topic.
I think minotaur would be more balanced having:
- less but more powerful shots
- either its range reduced or its firing angle reduced (I'd really like to see this gun as mid range)
- more recharge time (can be balanced with even more powerful shots)
As someone pointed out before atm it can ONLY be countered with moonshine tapping (on mid/short range, on long range you're pretty much just fu) and designing a pilot tool to counter a specific weapon with no other use (actually it would be a "crippler" tool) as someone suggested is just not right...
Moonshine is not the only counter...
It is the only pilot tool to counter the gun, good counters are disable weapons, keep the gun disabled it'll not shoot you.
Mercury, Artemis, Hwacha...
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Moonshine is not the only counter...
It is the only pilot tool to counter the gun, good counters are disable weapons, keep the gun disabled it'll not shoot you.
Mercury, Artemis, Hwacha...
Yes and no, your ship is continuously turned around (high ROF / reload time) and you will probably have just one gun pointing at the enemy ship (mercury is useless because you get out of firing window too easily, hwacha is probably the reason you got turned in the first place, meaning you cannot fire with that). One gun can help damaging weapons, but won't keep them disabled, not to mention that the enemy ship may have more guns than the minotaur alone pointed on you.
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Moonshine is not the only counter...
It is the only pilot tool to counter the gun, good counters are disable weapons, keep the gun disabled it'll not shoot you.
Mercury, Artemis, Hwacha...
Yes and no, your ship is continuously turned around (high ROF / reload time) and you will probably have just one gun pointing at the enemy ship (mercury is useless because you get out of firing window too easily, hwacha is probably the reason you got turned in the first place, meaning you cannot fire with that). One gun can help damaging weapons, but won't keep them disabled, not to mention that the enemy ship may have more guns than the minotaur alone pointed on you.
Merc works good when used in unison with moonshine.
Your argument that "Hwacha is probably the reason you got turned off arc in the first place" makes little sense...
Galleon Hwacha can disable well and the weight of the galleon means it is harder to turn off arc...
Spire Hwacha is not easy to turn off arc due to the ships profile.
Also the damage output of the gun means it is not a good killing weapon, giving time for pilots to recover during reload and to disables and do damage.
Yes the enemy may have more guns, galleon will have two or three guns pointed in your direction, two burst Artemis shots can disable two of those three guns, if you're on the side of the galleon with two guns and have an Artemis with a good gunner, you're laughing.
The Spire was buffed but is still susceptible to easy damage from a Hades, its a giant target which can be kept at a respectable range, kill it first or perhaps a mobula with Hades double Artemis and you can keep it disabled enough, get your allies to concentrate fire on the spire and you can still kill it quickly.
Now I'm not saying the gun is balanced, it is not, but it is not as overpowered as many claim it is, otherwise it would have been used much more during the SCS.... I didn't see one in the rounds I took part in.
The guns arcs make it harder to evade and avoid, if it catches you off guard it can put you in a bad position (for example a squid phoenix claw turn is hilarious if shot by a minotaur) but it can be countered...
Artemis is the saving grace, good range, good arcs, good disable power, just remember if you're intending to counter the minotaur on the enemy team with an Artemis, let your gunner know it is their primary target, if you need to explain where the gun is positioned on the enemy ship.
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Galleons and spires have little-to-no trouble with the minotaur as you said, on the other hand goldfishes, pyramidions, junkers and squids can be completely perma-disabled because of the amount of push/turn they receive, especially at long range (can't say anything about mobulas, didn't have a chance to see that).
Also, if I'm not wrong the minotaur gun outranges the artemis and even if they work on the same range, the target of the minotaur gunner is a ship, while the target of the artemis gunner is a single gun. Still thanks a lot for the tactical advice on the gun disabling effectiveness of the artemis, much appreciated.
So, again, maybe it can be countered in multiple ways, but any counter may be extremely hard to set-up (as non-spire or non-galleon), that's why, as you said, it's not balanced yet, I just hope the devs will receive our feedback and adjust things a little bit.
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Squids are not very heavy, they're subject to being pushed about, but they can push into a close range engagement very fast, especially on reload times.
Pyramidions are heavy and slow, the new engine Nerf means yes they struggle to regain position once the position is lost, so Minotaur counters pyramidion.
Goldfish, a long ship which is weak to the minotaur sideways on, if you let a minotaur get to your side, you're in trouble, but if you charge head on you can get your Hwacha or Carronade into arc, though it is situational, I'd not advise charging a spires guns head on ;)
Mobula is a giant target for minotaur, but have yet to pilot one against a gunner who knows the minotaur... (every minotaur gunner I've been against shot the centre of the mobula so far) but in theory the minotaur should have no problems turning a mobula... Mobula pilots, moonshine.
Sniping a single heavy gun is not as difficult as it may seem, just remind the gunners to shoot the big guns. :)
And yes i am certain Muse have had a lot of feedback about this gun :o
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For my two cents on the subject. Initially I thought it was overpowered in some regards but I realize the slow bullet travel time and a lack of tracer makes it relatively challanging for even veteran players when engaging in longer distance shots. I actually feel it works considerably better at closer ranges of course but that aside from a few tweaks to perhaps the firing rate or what not I feel the mino is rather reasonable with its weaknesses to its strengths.
If you beg to differ definitely make your voice known at feedback@musegames.com - they read the emails and are always receptive to input on improving the game with various suggestions and ideas.
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Agreed. After some practice with the gun, it is quite hard to use at longer ranges. If people are still upset about the range, maybe we could have something like reverse projectile expansion*? It'd make the gun ever harder to use at longer ranges which might balance out things (although, I'm not convinced it's unbalanced in the first place)
*See: http://gunsoficarusonline.wikia.com/wiki/Projectile_Expansion (http://gunsoficarusonline.wikia.com/wiki/Projectile_Expansion)
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Agreed. After some practice with the gun, it is quite hard to use at longer ranges. If people are still upset about the range, maybe we could have something like reverse projectile expansion*? It'd make the gun ever harder to use at longer ranges which might balance out things (although, I'm not convinced it's unbalanced in the first place)
*See: http://gunsoficarusonline.wikia.com/wiki/Projectile_Expansion (http://gunsoficarusonline.wikia.com/wiki/Projectile_Expansion)
Yes but then the gun becomes too much of a gun to be used at close range only,and we have Carronade MKII.... ???
I'd rather see it mid-long or long and loose effectiveness at closer ranger (so within arming time it pushes less etc) which would mean making the pojectile visible to make the ranged shots a little easier to judge..
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The minotaur is balanced dangit!
It is as annoying as how Lumberjacks or carronades keep taking your baloon,
Or hwachas disabling half or all of your ship every barrage.
Or a heavy flak not letting you rebuild.
And the minotaur in its own right makes up for what its worth in its own way.
The reload is hugely long, while requiering Heavy clip to make their shots accurate but also only giving them 3 shots where they originaly have 4, 5 with greased but then you must get close for maximum effeciency.
There are ways to counter it if done right, while something like the moonshine can render the effects of the minotaur useless if used right.
It is new, and the heavy flak would also be widely unorthodox if that would be the new gun.
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One problem with the moonshine is the destruction on the engines. Basically means the Minotaur is doing it's job of hampering you no matter what. Also the trouble of overshooting due to the massive increase in speed.
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How blatant do you guys plan to use moonshine versus minotaurs?
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I have no idea. Only played against mino once, and had no moonshine at the time. I have never used moonshine, and do not know anything about the required time to ignore the kickback. I do know that the mino shot is invisible and silent until it hits, so you have no warning. The only way to counter every mino shot with moonshine would be to run it 24/7.
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Nope. You can simply tap it. Or hold it for 1 second you think the mino shot will come in. And it helped me greatly keeping my disabling guns in arc to disable their mino/guns.
Simply tap it like you would any tool that activates in selection. Go into practice and start turning your squid in circles, tap moonshine and youl see the strength it delivers of holding your ships turn.
Now go into a heavy gun ship with minotaur, experiment with ammos in it.
Heavy clip has 3, and shoots slowly, i think every second and a half.
While greased has 5, and shoots quicker.
Tap moonshine versus heavy clips when you know a shot is coming in. The hardest thing of this is nailing a guess of the FIRST minotaur shot..
If you can defend against one minotaur heavyclip, you should be able to defend maybe against 2. But expect ruining your engines a bit, but not to unrepairable states.
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Minotaur outranges both Artemis and Manticore. I would call those two weapons "checks" to the Minotaur. Not "counters."
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Gatling out ranges carronades but it cab still effectively fight against one...
An advantage does not write off something having the potential to counter something else.
A gold fish is able to be killed in two shots using a merc and heavy flak, both which can be used on a galleon, but a blender fish is still about to counter a galleon.
It is all situational, and you have to use the right tools for the right situation.
Telling people "Oh that wont work because it is out ranged" just assumes every match is a snipe fest and only people with the longest range will win, witch is far from the case...
Ships, move, flanks happen.
People think.
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Somebody said somewhere in this thread that it is not very effective against Galleons because of the mass.... Somebody is wrong. Two shots will turn a Galleon more than 90 degrees. If it does't, you are doing it wrong. Pyramidians are actually one of the least affected ships since they are small and heavy.
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Gatling out ranges carronades but it cab still effectively fight against one...
An advantage does not write off something having the potential to counter something else.
A gold fish is able to be killed in two shots using a merc and heavy flak, both which can be used on a galleon, but a blender fish is still about to counter a galleon.
It is all situational, and you have to use the right tools for the right situation.
Telling people "Oh that wont work because it is out ranged" just assumes every match is a snipe fest and only people with the longest range will win, witch is far from the case...
Ships, move, flanks happen.
People think.
Range might not be everything, but the 1800-meter range of the Minotaur is very noticeably greater than the 1334-meter range of the Artemis or the 1200-meter range of the Manticore. If the Minotaur's range were reduced to 800, both those weapons as well as the 2250 Mercury would outrange it, giving more than just a single option to disable Minotaur while being targeted.
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Two words. Lesmok Artemis
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Secret tactics on how to play against a Minotaur:
- Don't long range it unless you have the advantage at the start of the engagement and your gunners can actually hit.
- Go close range, because then it can be easily disabled by Gatlings, Carronades and Hwachas.
- If you get hit while in close range then always remember that there might be a good chance of you being able to dodge, because dodging up/down in close range is much easier than it is in long range.
- If you get hit while in close range and there is really no way to dodge then always remember that you were probably going to die anyway, the Minotaur just sealed the deal.
If I were to compare that to any other gun, I don't see much difference. In fact, the very fact that you can stabilize a little bit with Kerosene and pretty much completely negate the fact with Moonshine makes it a rather weak gun, like the Flamethrower when it is facing pure chem spray.
The Minotaur is a gun that allows people to create opportunities that are in their favor, but these opportunities can only be created if you give them the opportunity to create them in the first place. It is like giving a Blenderfish or Hwachafish the opportunity to disable you, by not being sneaky enough or something or giving sniper teams to get you down from 100% to 0hp, if you stick to their altitude, immobile and let them shoot at you.
The Minotaur is "easy" to shoot? The Mercury is too! But the Minotaur has better arcs than the Mercury? If I stick to long range and let the enemy get close to me, neither Mercury nor Minotaur should be able to save me, but teams make mistakes, which the Minotaur punishes better than the Mercury. If I can't stick with the Mercury for long range, why not go close range with the Hwacha and disable literally everything? That should give me as much time as I need to win and if I still can't win by then then I probably lost the engagement way before the Hwacha got to shoot.
Out of personal experience, which also consists of competitive experience, when flying against the Minotaur, while flying a Mobula I can say that it is not unbalanced or OP, it is just super annoying.
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Somebody said somewhere in this thread that it is not very effective against Galleons because of the mass.... Somebody is wrong. Two shots will turn a Galleon more than 90 degrees. If it does't, you are doing it wrong. Pyramidians are actually one of the least affected ships since they are small and heavy.
Ahh okay I was wrong on that :) I know you know your stuff, guess I've just been lucky to have gunners shooting my galleon incorrectly :)
Gatling out ranges carronades but it cab still effectively fight against one...
An advantage does not write off something having the potential to counter something else.
A gold fish is able to be killed in two shots using a merc and heavy flak, both which can be used on a galleon, but a blender fish is still about to counter a galleon.
It is all situational, and you have to use the right tools for the right situation.
Telling people "Oh that wont work because it is out ranged" just assumes every match is a snipe fest and only people with the longest range will win, witch is far from the case...
Ships, move, flanks happen.
People think.
Range might not be everything, but the 1800-meter range of the Minotaur is very noticeably greater than the 1334-meter range of the Artemis or the 1200-meter range of the Manticore. If the Minotaur's range were reduced to 800, both those weapons as well as the 2250 Mercury would outrange it, giving more than just a single option to disable Minotaur while being targeted.
I seriously advise you stop staying still in snipe fests and let this gun keep out of your range all the time, the pure fact you're only looking at ranges of guns shows you're not taking into account ship movement...
If a minataur is shooting you you -can- charge it to close the gap in distance.
It'll be on the side of a galleon, that'll not keep the 600meters difference in weapons ranges for long!
It'll be a spire which can reverse at max speed, but that only buys it a little time, or a bullfish, which in that case you don't even need to charge it, just casually change position as it pushes you about a bit maybe disables a weapon here and there.
But by saying disable weapons are not an effective counter purely and solely on range (which as mentioned above, lesmok Artemis) is just ridiculous.
It shows ignorance to situations, maps, ally tactics, enemy tactics and rests only on the assumption everyone is going to sit stationary and watch this gun shoot them in the face while crying that it is OP.........
The gun is not balanced, it needs adjustments, but it can be countered in a few different ways and good pilots should take into account the situations they will find themselves in when deciding which counters to use.
Abd just to reiterate:
Secret tactics on how to play against a Minotaur:
- Don't long range it unless you have the advantage at the start of the engagement and your gunners can actually hit.
- Go close range, because then it can be easily disabled by Gatlings, Carronades and Hwachas.
- If you get hit while in close range then always remember that there might be a good chance of you being able to dodge, because dodging up/down in close range is much easier than it is in long range.
- If you get hit while in close range and there is really no way to dodge then always remember that you were probably going to die anyway, the Minotaur just sealed the deal.
If I were to compare that to any other gun, I don't see much difference. In fact, the very fact that you can stabilize a little bit with Kerosene and pretty much completely negate the fact with Moonshine makes it a rather weak gun, like the Flamethrower when it is facing pure chem spray.
The Minotaur is a gun that allows people to create opportunities that are in their favor, but these opportunities can only be created if you give them the opportunity to create them in the first place. It is like giving a Blenderfish or Hwachafish the opportunity to disable you, by not being sneaky enough or something or giving sniper teams to get you down from 100% to 0hp, if you stick to their altitude, immobile and let them shoot at you.
The Minotaur is "easy" to shoot? The Mercury is too! But the Minotaur has better arcs than the Mercury? If I stick to long range and let the enemy get close to me, neither Mercury nor Minotaur should be able to save me, but teams make mistakes, which the Minotaur punishes better than the Mercury. If I can't stick with the Mercury for long range, why not go close range with the Hwacha and disable literally everything? That should give me as much time as I need to win and if I still can't win by then then I probably lost the engagement way before the Hwacha got to shoot.
Out of personal experience, which also consists of competitive experience, when flying against the Minotaur, while flying a Mobula I can say that it is not unbalanced or OP, it is just super annoying.