Author Topic: Minotaur is unbalanced!  (Read 6383 times)

Offline Sedrion

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Minotaur is unbalanced!
« on: February 26, 2015, 12:12:10 pm »
Sorry if i write a new topic fr the minotaur, but this weapon is to overpowerd for this game. (sorry for my english)

First point is that the minotaur have a to long range. you can shot another ships from one end of the map to the another end. Other ships cant do anything to stop it. Is will be better if you change the range from this weapon to "short range" and change is so you can add the minotaur on a little weapon slot. So it will be balanced.

The second point is a question.
Why you can push a big ship better then a little ship? We tested that you can throw a big ship better than a little one.

Please balance the game .... it didnt make fun to play Guns of Icarus if this weapon is on an ship.

Yours sincerely
Sedrion

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 12:20:53 pm »
Yes the gun os not very balanced at this time, there are many suggestions about possible changes.

I think it should stay as a Heavy gun, maybe a light gun equivalent could be added but there is a shortage on heavy weapons and this gun helps fill that.

Range: I think it would work well as a short range weapon too.

Regarding ship size: The gun effects ships based on mass (weight) and its effect in relation to the centre of mass. Making "bigger ships" (I assume you mean Goldfish?) more affected as the goldfish has reletively low weight and a very long profile, making it weak against the centre of mass, all the gunner has to do is shoot nose or tail.
Where a Galleon (Big ship, very heavy) is still not greatly effected by the new weapon.. Unless you're using Phoenix Claw at the time of being shot.

Also the gun is incredibly effective against Squid, which is a small ship, so that's why I assume you were using a goldfish...


Offline David Dire

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 12:23:53 pm »
Short range really doesn't seem that great of an idea, maybe reduce the effect over range traveled, but I greatly dislike a short range idea. For starts, it would basically be another Carronade.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 12:29:51 pm »
I originally assumed it was a close range gun. I like a short range idea of around 500m. This would give the ship defence against most dps weapons (gat range 450, H carro 425).

Like Kamoba said, the farther away you shoot it from the middle of the ship, the more it pushes.

A Minotaur gunner will shoot at the side of a ship that is moving towards the Minotaur, and the front or back of a ship that is moving sideways.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 12:32:26 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2015, 12:31:38 pm »
A partial solution would be to nerf/buff heavy clip a bit. Give it 95% recoil reduction instead of 100%, and compensate in ROF or clip size.

Also, remove shatter.

Offline Kestril

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2015, 12:41:09 pm »
What Richard Lemoon said. That would make it less effective at range.

I think the bigger problem is the shatter. The gun really doesn't need it. It does enough already.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2015, 12:54:18 pm »
It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2015, 01:10:21 pm »
It does not actually do enough on its own. If it did, you could put it on a Goldfish and kill something in less than ten minutes. That is why shatter needs to go and something more substantial has to be put in.

Right now I use it mainly for the shatter (depending on ship). What should its use be with different damage types?

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2015, 02:52:10 pm »
Honestly, I don't think it's that unbalanced. At this point, I'd much rather be pelted with a Minotaur than a Lumberjack from max range. Heavy guns are supposed to be scary and annoying.

Offline Kestril

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2015, 02:57:43 pm »
I see it's primary role as a long-range disruption, or approach-denier: A great utility support that the spire and galleon have been so craving. It does plenty fine as it is already.

But combined the push with the pinpoint shatter damage and that makes it waaaay OP with that heavy clip.

The shatter damage + accuracy (at range) is what makes the thing overpowered.

Nerfing heavy clip to 80% or 85% reduce spread would go a long way to balance this thing out.  Then things might be manageable, so it doesn't have satellite-guided-railgun accuracy at range.

Also, people want to find different things in this gun. Some want more of an alternative main weapon. Some want more of a component-sniper, and some want more of the push for this thing to focus on. So it would be helpful to state "I want it to be like a " in your post so we don't talk past each other

I myself want it's focus to mess with the opponent's positioning at range more than their components, because that will keep it unique and not feel like a copy of the carronade/mercury.  Right now it does both at 1800m, which is too much.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 03:02:46 pm by Kestril »

Offline Saull

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2015, 03:08:47 pm »
Is there a way to do reverse arming time? Like the blast from the cannon begins to disapate after a certain distance that way it can keep a role as a long range disrupter without losing too much utility at the more dangerous mid to close ranges?

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2015, 03:22:30 pm »
I would like to leave the impact only at close range, instead of current where we have weak impact close strong impact far.

We should have strong impact close weak impact long range. The shatter is already good enough for long-range disable. It's basically a merc with no aoe but easier to shoot.

Offline Lanliss

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2015, 03:46:05 pm »
Everyone who says this gun needs to do more, it is meant solely as a support. It is not meant to carry anything at all. You are supposed to use it as a disruptor, and it is not meant to do any hull or armor damage, nor is it meant to be used to kill. It needs to stay as a support because as soon as it can break armor it will be over powered.

If you disagree with that then please explain why, as I have not actually played with the gun, I am just going off the stats I have read, and the Dev fireside chat where they said it was a support only gun.

EDIT: Also, it should not go into light gun slots. Can you imagine being broadsides by a junker with double mino? Really, most ships would be able to double mino in one way or another, and that would just be insane.

And does anyone think it needs a name change? Minotaur does not seem like a name for a support gun. Considering the Roman-esque naming of most things (Pyramidion, Galleon, Chimera) I would not mind a mythology based name, just not Minotaur in my opinion. That seems more like a damage focused name.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 04:06:41 pm by Lanliss »

Offline Dementio

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2015, 04:06:38 pm »
The second point is a question.
Why you can push a big ship better then a little ship? We tested that you can throw a big ship better than a little one.

Probably, because bigger ships have more area that are more off-center? A squid is almost like a little ball, everything is clustered together, but a Galleon has so much length, you can hit a spot so far from the center that the spin effect gets increased by a ton.

You can try shooting a Spire, it is probably one of the tallest ships, but you can't spin it as easy as other ones.

Offline Sedrion

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Re: Minotaur is unbalanced!
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 04:13:58 pm »
The second point is a question.
Why you can push a big ship better then a little ship? We tested that you can throw a big ship better than a little one.

Probably, because bigger ships have more area that are more off-center? A squid is almost like a little ball, everything is clustered together, but a Galleon has so much length, you can hit a spot so far from the center that the spin effect gets increased by a ton.

You can try shooting a Spire, it is probably one of the tallest ships, but you can't spin it as easy as other ones.

ok i didnt test this but i think a lighter ship must be harder hit than a big ship who weigth more... or im on the false mind?