Author Topic: About the Minotaur  (Read 7919 times)

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2015, 01:36:06 am »
I think it's too easy to shoot. Add drop or decrease speed (or nerf arcs) and I think it would be pretty balanced.

Offline MidnightWonko

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2015, 01:54:48 am »
I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

It's already very good at its intended purpose of knocking around ships.  In a game like this where positioning is crucial, a weapon like this is already a force to be reckoned with.  To give it piercing damage as well just seems like overkill.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2015, 02:07:26 am »
I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

It's already very good at its intended purpose of knocking around ships.  In a game like this where positioning is crucial, a weapon like this is already a force to be reckoned with.  To give it piercing damage as well just seems like overkill.

I think Muse once said there would never be a piercing heavy weapon. There was (and still is) talk about having it deal impact damage instead.

The amount of piercing per clip of heavy clip amounts to the same as 4 hades shots so it isn't much. I didn't check the shatter modifier but that probably contributes a chunk. Due to the long reload I haven't found the piercing much of an issue.

Does anyone know the reload?

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2015, 02:26:13 am »
The gun is way too long-range, nerfing range to 800m or less should be hotfix priority IMO. It makes long-range fights even more boring, because it prolongs the engagement without causing much permanent damage.

I think further along we should tweak the physics to make a sharper rampup of knockback depending on hit location. Increase reward for shots that hit the very edge of a ship (takes more skill smaller target) and punish shots that hit the center of a ship with less knockback. Another idea would be to buff impact bumpers, they're kinda useless right now and it might be good opportunity to help end minotaur reign of terror.

Offline Sarabelle Marlowe

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2015, 02:35:12 am »
From what I have seen, it would not make any sense for it to be a small gun. The concept in itself makes it so to have that much force it would have to be a very large piece of artillery to begin with. Beyond that, it makes anyone flying a long ship cry. I spent several games giggling as I made mobbys and junkers spin like tops. I think while it may be a niche gun, paired correctly it can make a very helpful and scary ship. So far I've seen the best use with it is on a galleon. While it's a pain when paired with a flak if whomever shooting doesn't wait for the flak first, it did rather well being we pushed the other ships about so much we could dominate the sky. I'd say the best pairing I tried so far was with the hwatcha. Between disable, push and heavy clip range it worked wonderfully as a disable side on the ship.  Seen both good and bad examples on Spires, and to be honest it's rubbish on a goldfish from what I've seen so far.

One of its few weaknesses is that it has a decent reload time. If it were a smaller gun, people would put 3 on the side of a junker and chain spin, which would be insanely hard to counter at all. Pretty much a grief engine. Where as having it be a large gun makes people have to decide and choose if they want damage or not.  While it can pick parts...there are other guns that do too and in my opinion, do it better. And too many Minotaurs means far far less damage to dish out on the ships that can have it.

I would say the arcs and range are rather silly. Its very smooth and very easy to learn compared to some of the other heavy guns. I agree it might do with some nerfing, perhaps on the range or arcs itself. For something that massive it should feel more like its that massive. Right now I feel it handles far too smoothly.

So far though, I find it an interesting and fun addition. I am curious to see what will become of it.

Offline MidnightWonko

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2015, 03:21:29 am »
I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

It's already very good at its intended purpose of knocking around ships.  In a game like this where positioning is crucial, a weapon like this is already a force to be reckoned with.  To give it piercing damage as well just seems like overkill.

I think Muse once said there would never be a piercing heavy weapon. There was (and still is) talk about having it deal impact damage instead.

The amount of piercing per clip of heavy clip amounts to the same as 4 hades shots so it isn't much. I didn't check the shatter modifier but that probably contributes a chunk. Due to the long reload I haven't found the piercing much of an issue.

Does anyone know the reload?

Making it do impact damage could potentially be just as bad; impact does 80% extra balloon damage, and the balloon is the largest target on most ships.

Explosive might be more balanced, as it does almost no damage to anything except the permahull.

The gun is way too long-range, nerfing range to 800m or less should be hotfix priority IMO.

I had considered that as a possible balance as well.

Another idea might be to make it a projectile weapon instead of a hitscan weapon to require the gunner to lead his targets.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 03:29:36 am by MidnightWonko »

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2015, 05:10:31 am »
More arming-time, Reduced range (similar to banshee), Slightly less shatter damage, Smaller arcs, Slightly reduced rate of fire.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2015, 09:49:42 am »
If you have suggestions your best bet is to email feedback@musegames.com
I highly recommend doing so because Muse actually reads them.

I like the idea of making bumpers useful.

Right now it's basically a Gauss gun. In fact I think I'll start calling it that in game because I don't really like calling it the Mino.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 10:06:24 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2015, 10:54:27 am »
I've decided to call it the 'Taur.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2015, 12:11:14 pm »
I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

Actually, a good gunner will be aiming this primarily at the balloon, which is why it should do a reasonable amount of Impact damage. As it is now, the balloon just giggles as you shoot it.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2015, 12:45:38 pm »
I've decided to call it the 'Taur.

That works a lot better. I've been saying "tar" but it's pronounced "tor".

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2015, 02:25:28 pm »
I've decided to call it the 'Taur.

That works a lot better. I've been saying "tar" but it's pronounced "tor".

And if the tar ammo becomes a thing....



"Loadin' Tar in Taur"

"You cant combine gasses!"

Offline MidnightWonko

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2015, 04:23:57 pm »
I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage.  It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.

Actually, a good gunner will be aiming this primarily at the balloon, which is why it should do a reasonable amount of Impact damage. As it is now, the balloon just giggles as you shoot it.
Interestingly enough, I believe it should never do impact damage for PRECISELY the same reason!  This weapon is already powerful enough at controlling with its knockback and its shatter vs components.  Changing piercing to impact would make this weapon far and beyond more practical than the Hellhound and the Lumberjack combined!

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2015, 06:18:46 pm »
I said Impact/piercing. No shatter. A gun that can knock an enemy out of arc should not also be able to destroy engines to keep it that way. Also, I said a reasonable amount. Bringing it anywhere near Lumber or Hellhound levels is unreasonable.

Still, this gun has no light gun to pair up with as it is. On a Goldfish, you have to rely on your ally completely. You can barely damage hull, and have a small chance of breaking a gun or engine. What then? Without an ally, nothing.

The only reason it works on a Spire or Galleon is because you have other guns to rely on. Both still need a piercing in the main light gun position. Both still need an explosive followup. That is THREE guns minimum on the same target to make this thing worth taking.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: About the Minotaur
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2015, 06:41:35 pm »
I've had success with a bifecta on a fish, which is required to make it "work". It's probably not very optimal but it can be fun.

Against other fish I've used spanner mallet buff heavy with a side heavy clip light carro. A good gunner can prevent arcs and disable the other heavy gun. The side carro has an easy arc and the goal is to push/drop them into terrain.

The ability to one shot any component with buff heavy is quite powerful. On a galleon it can be used as a long range disable weapon against other galleons.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 06:50:35 pm by BlackenedPies »