Level inflation and "noob problem"

[Squidslinger Gilder]

I like flying with [AI]s, they are like pre-teen Olympic Chinese gymnasts.

LOLICON!!!!

[Hoja Lateralus]

I'm pretty much with this thread although the only downside I can see is the massive hit to fun newbies like me will get. I enjoy hoping into advanced games (for me it's just another match =D)
But some of the opinions in this thread are a bit concerning. Matches played does show dedication but if you're a dedicated troll or hell bent on playing your way you could easily play 1000+ games blissfully ignorant of the meta or learn any nice hints and tips. Also look at it later, all the vets now who have say 2000+ or so would be an even higher number while the novices would finally get to 1000 games so we would essentially be in the same spot since they would lack the experience. That bar would just keep rising? No?
Wins are pretty much irrelevant as long as you're having fun and if that means playing matches regardless of opponents K/D ratios and what not then that's got to be a good thing, means more play time which is what you guys want right?

I do have a suggestion that could apply to the novice bracket in particular,

I was thinking something with the commendation system because right now it's just a virtual stroke, it literally means nothing. It could be reworked with three different options to choose from which represent a different opinion on the player being commended. Obviously these would be from higher level players playing with novices who've decided to join advanced games. Let the players weed out the weak so to speak, if you're tired of Muse's methods.
Have the current thumbs up commendation which basically tells the player they've done a good job. Doesn't provide any positives apart from being a nice pat on the back and letting the novice player know they did good in the advanced match and maybe they could play another one.

The second commendation is the thumbs down commendation and that would basically ensure the player is stuck in novice matches for some time (1hr or so)

Players that ignore commending a novice would have no say but they would narrow the votes cast down. I guess that is the third option

The commendation result could be the majority commendations voted.

On the levels issue I'd say an overall reduction to exp rewarded for wins and matches played for everyone. Definitely tone down the achievement exp.

If you have 1000 matches and you play only to troll, which takes at least 500 hours...



It 'may' be less fun for greenhorns (although I don't think it will), but it 'will' be far less frustraiting for everyone else, especially dedicated high-lvl players.

To have fun you have to play with an enemy of similar level. K/D ratio is the stupidest way to determine it (in GOIO), but it is 'some' way.

About current recommendation system being pointless - true. Discussed. Devs don't care / they don't see it as priority.

I don't think another recommendation mechanic is necessary, especially when greenhorns can go into the advanced games anyway and this new system is supposed to allow us to remove them and put them into novice matches for an hour. If you want to do that - just add votekick and we'll be happy.

[Xylo Wenchbane]

I'm pretty much with this thread although the only downside I can see is the massive hit to fun newbies like me will get. I enjoy hoping into advanced games (for me it's just another match =D)
But some of the opinions in this thread are a bit concerning. Matches played does show dedication but if you're a dedicated troll or hell bent on playing your way you could easily play 1000+ games blissfully ignorant of the meta or learn any nice hints and tips. Also look at it later, all the vets now who have say 2000+ or so would be an even higher number while the novices would finally get to 1000 games so we would essentially be in the same spot since they would lack the experience. That bar would just keep rising? No?
Wins are pretty much irrelevant as long as you're having fun and if that means playing matches regardless of opponents K/D ratios and what not then that's got to be a good thing, means more play time which is what you guys want right?

I do have a suggestion that could apply to the novice bracket in particular,

I was thinking something with the commendation system because right now it's just a virtual stroke, it literally means nothing. It could be reworked with three different options to choose from which represent a different opinion on the player being commended. Obviously these would be from higher level players playing with novices who've decided to join advanced games. Let the players weed out the weak so to speak, if you're tired of Muse's methods.
Have the current thumbs up commendation which basically tells the player they've done a good job. Doesn't provide any positives apart from being a nice pat on the back and letting the novice player know they did good in the advanced match and maybe they could play another one.

The second commendation is the thumbs down commendation and that would basically ensure the player is stuck in novice matches for some time (1hr or so)

Players that ignore commending a novice would have no say but they would narrow the votes cast down. I guess that is the third option

The commendation result could be the majority commendations voted.

On the levels issue I'd say an overall reduction to exp rewarded for wins and matches played for everyone. Definitely tone down the achievement exp.

If you have 1000 matches and you play only to troll, which takes at least 500 hours...



It 'may' be less fun for greenhorns (although I don't think it will), but it 'will' be far less frustraiting for everyone else, especially dedicated high-lvl players.

To have fun you have to play with an enemy of similar level. K/D ratio is the stupidest way to determine it (in GOIO), but it is 'some' way.

About current recommendation system being pointless - true. Discussed. Devs don't care / they don't see it as priority.

I don't think another recommendation mechanic is necessary, especially when greenhorns can go into the advanced games anyway and this new system is supposed to allow us to remove them and put them into novice matches for an hour. If you want to do that - just add votekick and we'll be happy.

No it generally isn't as fun as learning and playing. I mean the it's bad not knowing the mechanics of the game and not enjoying it but then it's much worse having people who know the mechanics and not bother showing people how to play.

On the troll example. I also said bad players that just want to play their way. Kinda like trolls. It wouldn't surprise me if we had that happen, you've got people who like to play game because they're entertaining, while some people may not be good they play because they enjoy it.

If you're worried about the dedicated high level players why not teach more newer and inexperienced players who are dedicated to grow that part of the community? If anything set up a separate lobby for the higher tier players that novices or mid ranks can't access unless invited. I myself want to get to that level of gaming in GoI but every time I'm in lobby higher level players refuse to play with me on the same ship simply because I have a low match count or level.

How do newbies get higher match count and level if we're playing Lobbies of Icarus all day? (I live in Australia and the community here is almost non existent. especially since the sudden drop in Japanese/SEA players, so staying up in ungodly hours on my spare time waiting to play only to be refused time and time again is quite irritating)

[Arturo Sanchez]

this ignorant implication that the whole majority of the vet haven't at some stage tried to teach every noob they encountered... only to be met with retards who don't know simple commands like forward, stay and BIG RED THING MEANS MOVE YOUR ASS AND REACT!

How about, newer players learn like every other newb in every other competitive community. They git gud and learn by themselves out of sight of vets.
And when they demonstrate an average level of competence, vets bother actually teaching them without having their patience and time wasted.


because frankly? Teaching those I deem worth my time and under my wing and under my clan tag? Much less stressful than some random yob who I would actually punch, if I ever encounter them in a IRL team-based activity. Especially if money (and the quantity of) is involved in the quality of the general result.

[Schwalbe]

Yesterday I witnessed how one noob (offensive sound of this one intended) explaining to the other noob how to deactivate searching for novice matches in matchmaker. This is terrifying.

[Xylo Wenchbane]

this ignorant implication that the whole majority of the vet haven't at some stage tried to teach every noob they encountered... only to be met with retards who don't know simple commands like forward, stay and BIG RED THING MEANS MOVE YOUR ASS AND REACT!

How about, newer players learn like every other newb in every other competitive community. They git gud and learn by themselves out of sight of vets.
And when they demonstrate an average level of competence, vets bother actually teaching them without having their patience and time wasted.


because frankly? Teaching those I deem worth my time and under my wing and under my clan tag? Much less stressful than some random yob who I would actually punch, if I ever encounter them in a IRL team-based activity. Especially if money (and the quantity of) is involved in the quality of the general result.

Right, and you 'got gud' I assume? Your high and mighty opinion shouldn't weigh on people who are just starting out. I'm pretty sure CA's should have a heavier opinion in the matter with how the newer player system works. I'm with you guys on the trolls though that doesn't mean I support an entire noobicide because of a few bad apples.

I'm on my way to 'gitting gud' it's just difficult to get a good match especially in the novice pool and I'm not ignorant to the way vets treat newer players. I get that treatment BEFORE the match even starts because I'm 'too low level' or 'not enough matches, not worth my time, got back to novice scrub *insta blocked*' That attitude needs to crawl in a hole and die. I can seriously count on my hand how many level 35+ players I've played against. 2 of which are in this thread.

[Crafeksterty]

I understand being instablocked is bad, and it is.

But you have to understand that the attitude comes from an enourmous ammounts of bad apples, theres only few good apples.
The attitude is sick and disgusting, but so is people who say they where at the hull when as a pilot i can clearly see he was repairing a gun and only took a step for the hull when it was too late.

I yell out commands to be clear, for maybe they cannot hear me clearly only to notice they cannot hear me at all, because their voice is set to OFF.
I give them a recommended loadout, only for them to change it anyway.
Gunner yells to turn the ship, which i cant because i need him to run for the engines, and he complains.
Seeing an engineer whack at a component where the cooldown is still on.
Seeing engineers on their guns when i called for repair.
Afk, or players so bad i wish i had an AI instead.

Even after noticing them of it, they still do the same mistake the next match...

Alot of players who actually do listen and do as i said in pub games end up succesfull + I end up being called a good or polite captain and/or being added.
But they dont know the sheer ammount of stress i put up with having to describe roles, and trying to get replies from each crew to get a good reading on who is doing what in my ship and at what standard every match. I rage really hard often just seeing my ship not do what is intended. And im not even setting a high standard or a difficult task.

I bring the easiest build, and easiest description in making my crew work togheter the best as possible. But then it all boils down to those individual crew members who cannot fullfill a simple task which does bring the whole ship down into mindlessly improvisation. Which is no fun for any veterans because they clearly see the mistake, and clearly see how it could have gone well. And they cannot do anything about it and rely on chance that they will get good crew.

I am sorry that veteran standards are too high, which it is actually not. Even though we clearly given up on the hope for newbies. But dealing with bad players is actualy not worth the match, which there is an abundance of. Which is why were so mistrusting of newplayers. Not to mention, playing as engineer or gunner on a noob ship is actually worse due to how you cannot make the ship perform better with vital decision making.


I would love to teach newplayers, but they dont want to learn. Which ends me in being frustrated and give up on it.
"GO!"
"Ready up" -when were still voting for a new map
"Why not ready?" -If only he would read the chat
"Why choose this ship?" -Asks this, but has never been on it

I dont hate noobs because i know good ones exist. But there is more bad ones and i cannot figure out why none of these people have pressed the tutorial button.

[Schwalbe]

I'm affraid I have to agree with almost all Crafekfersty said in a previous post. The difference is I rarely rage aloud. On the other hand it happens more often, when it comes to having a dumb ally.

Thank God Munkers exist. They are the best cure for bastards yelling 'READY UP', not reacting, or ramming you without any particular reason.

But dumb bastards aboard the ship... God, no. And what's worse, there will be more of them, when PS4 version will be released.

Those who know me know, I'm no elitist. I can forgive many mistakes if I see a player willing to help and learn, and it's always cheering to hear things like "Oh, I didn't know that! Thanks!", because even though I have almost 1k matches played, I don't know everything, I still learn (btw. Fuck gaylleons, who designed this shit ;___;) I always seek having rather a good time, than victory. But FFS, new players sometimes act so retarded they make me more pissed than entertained...


Edit:

"Why choose this ship?" -Asks this, but has never been on it

Well, this must be justified as that they MIGHT want to learn about it's purpose.

[Crafeksterty]

Oh yeh, you can look at it that way. Il make it sound more pessemistic.
"Urgh why choose this ship when you can choose a pyra... jeeze".

[Schwalbe]

Oh, it appears I haven't put enough emphasise on one, certain word. Let me correct that mistake:

Well, this must be justified as that they MIGHT want to learn about it's purpose.

[MightyKeb]

Oh, it appears I haven't put enough emphasise on one, certain word. Let me correct that mistake:

Well, this must be justified as that they MIGHTYKEB want to learn about it's purpose.

"You called?"

[Schwalbe]

Oh, it appears I haven't put enough emphasise on one, certain word. Let me correct that mistake:

Well, this must be justified as that they MIGHTYKEB want to learn about it's purpose.

"You called?"

Fetch me some new players, so I can feast upon them!"

[Xylo Wenchbane]

Newb player, reporting for dooty sir! o7

On a serious note I can see how some people get easily frustrated and I do agree with you Crafeksterty. On that I can't provide any new suggestions apart from a separate league for higher level/vet players. Or a lobby similar to how novices have their specific bracket lobby.

[Crafeksterty]

That is where the problem is difficult to fix.

If muse would create a league for veteran players, you would divide the ammount of players playing, searching in matchmaking, etc. When there allready is an unhealthy number of players for the game. Tbh the community has actually divided into a vet mostly group and that is the competetive scene. Most long term players engage there. Doesnt mean all long term players though. There are many veterans engaging non competetively, but if you want to see the clearest line where there is a seperation, the competetive scene is to mention.


I geniuenly do not think any hard game fixes will solve this problem. It is a heavily team-based game where one must rely on the other. And that fundemental needs development. As much as the tutorial covers things, i dont think even if the tutorial was played gives space for those players to learn the game as much as it is needed. I keep saying that Co-op when it comes out will help any player who buys that in a bundle with this to better play in skirmish.

That is because in that game, there probably is more space for them to learn, win and fail. While currently we have novice which doesnt fullfill that learning curve of succeeding and failing.

Thats what i think atleast.


If i have to mention though, the impact of what one person does, does not seem obvious. If i remember hard, when i first played engineer, i tought i was just doing toilet scrubbing janitor job. I only realised how that janitor is flipping important when i was a pilot. Thats not a janitor, its a crew member!

I feel like in order to fix this 'dynamic'. A clearer impact in teamwork needbe shown. I really dont know how, but in order to make my engineers REALLY want to fix the side engines, i have to tell them "I cannot keep my ship steady if the turning engines are damaged"
"I cant go up, because the baloon is damaged". It is just not obvious and needs to be adressed for people to want to take them seriously.

When buffing a baloon, could be nice to see how much it strengthened it for to give a sense of impact. Damage numbers for gunners? I had this idea before where you could replace your pilot tool with a book that shows you damage numbers or a book with Component effeciency. Then again, highly uncertain if this will help much.

[Arturo Sanchez]

this ignorant implication that the whole majority of the vet haven't at some stage tried to teach every noob they encountered... only to be met with retards who don't know simple commands like forward, stay and BIG RED THING MEANS MOVE YOUR ASS AND REACT!

How about, newer players learn like every other newb in every other competitive community. They git gud and learn by themselves out of sight of vets.
And when they demonstrate an average level of competence, vets bother actually teaching them without having their patience and time wasted.


because frankly? Teaching those I deem worth my time and under my wing and under my clan tag? Much less stressful than some random yob who I would actually punch, if I ever encounter them in a IRL team-based activity. Especially if money (and the quantity of) is involved in the quality of the general result.

Right, and you 'got gud' I assume? Your high and mighty opinion shouldn't weigh on people who are just starting out.

You assume correctly. Information is abundant for any new player. I looked up this info and played armed with that knowledge. I didn't need to be told or taught.

I actively asked and learned and demonstrated and practised.


Just like any game I try. The community isn't some baby sitting service. Its people that want to play and be challenged. I'm not in the game to make you feel like a special little flower, I'm there to play the game without ideally without the feeling of being encumbered just because some noob couldnt put in the time to learn all the info that is easily available to him.

And don't you even dare imply that it isn't the case. Most cases of noobness can be fixed by doing 2 basic things, Do the tutorial and read the manual. But the problem is, very few actually do.


They play the game before they've even learned how to play. No one wants that on their ship.

Newb player, reporting for dooty sir! o7

On a serious note I can see how some people get easily frustrated and I do agree with you Crafeksterty. On that I can't provide any new suggestions apart from a separate league for higher level/vet players. Or a lobby similar to how novices have their specific bracket lobby.

you get butthurt when I mention it. And then stave it off as if you had just thought of it...



As for crank...

I have a very simple solution.

you know those prompts that appear mid game (the ones you turn off once diapers have been removed).

script it better so it directly reflects what is needed. Engines are destroyed, have the prompt say "rebuild the engines or the ship cannot move"

"rebuild the hull or the ship will not last"

"Captain is using claw/kero/moonshine maintain the engines while the tool is active"

throw out the tool use prompts. just thoroughly cover that in the tutorial. But in the game, come in with the assumption that you have the knowledge of the tools.

Because it is clearly the upper novice stuff thats getting ppl so confused (despite what a bit of fking reading will do to fix that)