Communists in GOIO

[Arturo Sanchez]

*shrug they are kinda terrible at the game. Just beat them over and over until they go away or disband.

[Schwalbe]

I beg to differ on it being 'sad'. It ties in with what you are saying about forgetting what a symbol used to mean. If people are using something for no other reason than it is 'cool', with no ties to the political/religious/evil/whatever thing it used to stand for, then it is well on its way to becoming something else. That is progress.

Yeah, actually I meant something FAR more said. That it's meaning is ERASED from the face of the world forever. Then it will be right. As long as people live, as long as echoing waves of cause and effect are seen on the surface of reality... it is not forgotten yet.

*shrug they are kinda terrible at the game. Just beat them over and over until they go away or disband.

You mean, with crowbar, right?
Grim jokes aside, no matter how I generally dislike you, this time I may agree.

[Sammy B. T.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

[Crafeksterty]

There is one thing im on Mr.disaster in on this and that is Russias recent troublemaking. With Ukraine and etc. And maybe some additions that i dont know of..
Wich is where the symbol could remind people of them, and serving the symbol to represent may mean whoever is using it with purpouse for it is on the side with Russia and the threat they pose.

But it is still not a symbol of hatred much like what the swastika became. Specialy the black white and red swastika.


What C-ponter said:

there will always be people who  use and exploit religion or politics to justify their actions, but does that really mean all religion and politics should be outlawed?

Wich is more in the philosophy of outlawing anything that has had a bad history.
For this case were looking at the communistic symbol and determining if that is bad enough of a symbol to outlaw in this game.
Imo it doesnt have enough of a symbol torwards a negative meaning, specialy if you compare it to the negative swastika.


Also, i find it scary so many have read mein kampf.

[BlackenedPies]

It's wrong to associate communism with the pseudo-communist dictatorships that arose. Marx would've been equally horrified by the regimes using the guise of communism.

If we ban the hammer and sickle then we have to ban all political and religious symbols in GoI. I wouldn't be against this but I don't think it's necessary.

[TeddyBearMafia]

ITT: Drama.

In Canadian society the image of the hammer and sickle has no real impact beyond a vague association with Communism and labour rights movements. I am, however, willing to be completely cognizant of the kinds of emotions it might inspire in those who lived under an oppressive regime that used that image as part of its propaganda.

I would have to side with Skies on this one: if we ban the hammer/sickle, we just ban all overtly political and religious symbology from Guns. I, however, really oppose the idea of a witch-hunt on this issue. I would imagine that some who would use that image would have no real conception of its history (keeping in mind that many of GoIO's players were now born after the fall of the iron curtain), and as such I feel that polite requests to desist, however tough they may be to stomach, are the right course of action.

All the other arguments in the this thread about Nazis are just tangents, guys. The original point was that a player felt uncomfortable as a result of the use of symbology with a specific historical, spacial, and ideological meaning, and we should ideally respect a request that costs us little to nothing to adhere towards.

[BlackenedPies]

It's about intent, and they're probably not using the symbol to symbolize communism. I automatically associate it with communism, but for many it is synonymous with the Marxism-Leninism regimes.

I think Muse's intention of including it was for it's association with communism, not Marxism-Leninism. I'm not sure how the GoI symbols work but maybe it could be removed. Although I do think in that case we should remove any other political and religious symbols.

I think of it kinda like the confederate flags on the backs of trucks over here. There isn't a confederate flag symbol in GoI, but if there was a clan would use it. But it's important to note the two different symbolisms of the hammer and sickle. I can't judge whether having the second association is grounds for removal.

[Kamoba]

Oh boy, this subject comes up in every community, the one that no one likes discussing but makes oh so many people very emotional.

While I do understand what Scwabe says about the damage done, I also do not agree that the internet should dictate what symbols can and cannot be used...
The symbol itself did not perform the evil, it was those who abused their positions of power to turn what the symbol once stood for into something it was not meant to be.

Also, if Muse were to take action against this one clanntag, they'd have to moniter and censor every tag in the game all the time, more than they do now... Also if that's the case, Patched Wizard uses a + symbol as his tag, that reminds me too much of the crucifix, an item used to execute hundreds upon hundreds of people in its time, in a dreadfully humiliating way, as well as used as a symbol by a religion which by itself can be held responsible for the murder of millions because of individuals who abused the religion...

It's frustrating, and infuriating but internet censorship can only go, so far unfortunately..

[Skrimskraw]

Communism is not the same as stalinism lol.

[Supimpa]

What, you reported someone for using the communist symbol? Please tell me this is a joke.

[Patched Wizard]

Also, if Muse were to take action against this one clanntag, they'd have to moniter and censor every tag in the game all the time, more than they do now... Also if that's the case, Patched Wizard uses a + symbol as his tag, that reminds me too much of the crucifix, an item used to execute hundreds upon hundreds of people in its time, in a dreadfully humiliating way, as well as used as a symbol by a religion which by itself can be held responsible for the murder of millions because of individuals who abused the religion...

NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not my band-aids! You can't take them from me! They're all I have! THEY'RE ALL I HAVE!!!!

[Gambrill]

what the F*** has happened to you all? when i used to play a while back everyone was so chilled out and friendly. And now it looks like petty arguments and point scoring. Get it together!

[Xemkobankavareniya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-gI_pFog0

[swimfan]

i am  buddhist the swastika aka yungdrung is a religious symbol if we can use communism symbol and queso says its ok because its not bad why cant i use a yungdrung its a important symbol to my believes and it doesnt represent anything bad if its a buddhist context

[Thomas]

Very odd how this wasn't locked on the first post. Either from an intolerance of communism or harassment of the Russian clan that happens to use ☭. Although our community standards don't seem to care as much about nationality or ethical orientations.

It is true that this symbol is considered criminal in a number of countries (wikipedia tells me they are: Georgia, Hungary, Lithuania, and Moldova), but Guns of Icarus Online doesn't seem to be on that list; so it's probably fine.


But seriously, a thread for the sole purpose of getting players to report a specific group of players feels like it's breaking a rule and that should be a little more relevant than the communist debate. At the very least Pit the thread, this should absolutely not be in the general discussions.