Communists in GOIO

[Hoja Lateralus]

The symbol stood for Nazism, an ideology explicitly involving eugenics and murder.

Any chance you c ould link /give me the name of a source or 2  claiming  this?

It's in it's core - nazism assumes that germanic people are "master race" and is superior to all the other races and needs "space to live". This of course means that rest of the races must either die out or simply be killed (if in the way of "master" race). There were also special "troops" of aryan men who were given orders to make sex to aryan women (opinion of the soldiers or women didn't matter because, hey - greater good, eh?).

At no point did I say all were volunteers, just a larger percentage than people realized.

I'd like to see your source claiming this

I cant belive people dont notice this.

The swastika that of nazis is crooked. While swastikas that of ancient times or positive uses of today arent. I havent seen any swastikas that are crooked and meant for good while crooked swastikas was always coming from the nazi flag.

Think of it in a way of reversing the christian cross as a way to showcase a polar opposite of its meaning. you know, antichrist.

Well on a Reich flag it's crooked but was also used not-crooked. And Hitler didn't use it to oppose it, contrary. Hitler copied many other symbols for happiness or power, for example Roman Salute.

[Patched Wizard]

An image can transcend it's own nature and become a symbol only when we or society give it the means to do so. A symbol will only ever have as much influence and power as we allow it. Our reactions to symbols has less to do with the symbols themselves and more to do with ourselves and the areas in which we allow or deny offence.

Even the Swastika has the potential to be stripped of its power and rendered meaningless by society. The question is though: should we?


But since we've already passed the point of Godwin's Law I think we should all just move on.

[DJ Logicalia]

Ponter, I liked you. Please don't defend the Nazis. I get wanting to play devil's advocate, but the Nazis in WWII Era did a bunch of terrible things and Nazis today are awful people. They're less genocidal now and more white supremacist,  and all terrible and need no defense. Please can we stop with this nonsense.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Well either way its pretty obvious it doesn't work. You can't really call China a heavy communist nation anymore. Theres just still some staunch commies in charge but power is shifting. Think in our lifetime we'll see China completely change back to more traditional rule.

South America would be the next area but they are collapsing. We don't hear about it in US media but they are. Multiple countries have been ran into the ground by communist or socialist governments. Heck one of their dictators was recently on a world tour trying to get people to buy their oil or at least give them money. It is their own fault tho. They literally chased out all business and forced it all under the government. Then when the market shifts, the system can't and it collapses. Now there is talk he can't even return cause they'll kill him if he sets foot back in the nation. All power in the hands of the gov is never a good deal.

Soviet symbols and logos get a bit more lax treatment because frankly, no one cared if Stalin was butchering his own people. He was fighting Hilter, even though he was allied with Hitler first. But the fact they fought the Nazis is all that mattered in the end. Media has also portrayed communists in more of a comical fashion which lessens opinions. "In soviet russia, car drives you!"

Nazis were more in your face and are the perfect villains for mass media since they were openly committing genocide. But frankly Disaster has a valid point. The Soviets were a brutal regime. Millions were killed or oppressed. People who lived through those times or lost loved ones will be offended by soviet imagery. And they should be. I've talked with some who lived under it and fled to the US. They are good concerned people who don't want to see this nation following similar paths. Heck they love this land more than natives and they can't stand these types of symbols and feel just as strongly about them as Jews feel about swastikas.

[c-ponter]

I cannot give a source now as I am on mobile but will post one here or pm you whichever you prefer once I have access to a computer.As for the Aaryan master race that part of Nazism is...flawed to say the least, if not downright stupid though they did not actually persecute everyone who did not fit their master race ideal, they were just kind of ignored for the most part, but I don't doubt Hitler would have 'solved that problem' as he saw it after he had won the war, if he had done so.
Though the part about women being forced to reproduce with men is not entirely true, they were strongly encouraged but not forced, though admittedly there probably were many that felt forced to do so.(I can provide a source to that as well if you like)
but for the record I would like to clarify that most of what Hitler did was not Nazi, it was his own personal belief (look to Mein Kampf, before Hitler gained control of the Nazi party they weren't nearly as extreme) and I do not agree with what he did at all.

[Schwalbe]

@Schwalbe
Did you just play the German card? (it is like the race card if you are black)

First of all - I'm not german. German nickname origins from that I like how this sounds.

I might've overreacted, aye. But it's forbidden to use symbols of swastika and hammer&sickle in many countries. And Crafeksterty, please, I have never seen anyone who used swastika in game not to say anything like "Heil Hitler" or any shit like that after that. About communism? Shut up. Odi Profanum Vulgus.
How the fucking hell you think communism wanted to take over the world, spread their bloody love for workship and brotherhood? By means of goddamn revolution. What do you think is revolution, some fucking flowers picking or discussing with tea?
Nazism might be simplified to wiping out not perfect races, but communism in the version of USSR should be then simplified to wiping out anyone else who is not a worker. Communists would kill your "highly educated" (highly educated my ass) asses for the glory of worker class.

Japaneese camps were horrible, this must to be agreed with. But you propably have not seen anybody who survived mining the ore in Ural Mountains with his bare hands only. Not, not just grabbing the ore. They had no pickaxes nor anything to mine - bare hands only. Volunteers... Oh yeah, right. What else? Brothels? Blackjack and hookers?

Somebody may play a card of brainwashed propaganda... pfffft. I always explore new knowledge by myself. I don't give a damn about martyrology, or anything connected with this twisted, perverted way of romantic thinking (by romantic I mean the period of culture) - only facts.

Facts are, that in fact Nazism in cold numbers, in psychological and economical analysis was far less harming than communism. Nazism was wiped out, communism survived and tormented people for next 50 years.



Gillder: As for the Stalin - Hitler "relationship".

Stalin's alliance with Adolf was in fact fucking the third reich up. The agreement was: 3rd Reich gives technology, in exchange for resources. Which never happened. Because it was never to happen. Stalin was planning from the very beginning to use Nazi Germany to empower his military forces, so he could conquer whole Europe and spread communism all around it. He was preparing his enormous forces for assault in september 1941, but Hitler was faster and launched his assault on USSR, destroying all the offensive forces gathered near border - that's why communists were forced to move back, they did not think about defences, only about assault, and their forces were destroyed soon after the beginning of the assault. That's the other story though.


Gilder, btw - have my salute.

[Hoja Lateralus]

Mr disaster while I agree that those events were horrific and should be treated as such, by that theory Christianity should be illegal due to the crusades, Muslims should be punished for their countless Jihads over the years, Egyptians should be persecuted for their enslavement of the Jews ect... Though none of these events are justifiable in any way shape or form in my opinion there is no point dwelling on what a symbol or ideology was used to represent by one or several prominent members, as a general rule every ideology would work in theory but none of them can in reality, there will always be people who  use and exploit religion or politics to justify their actions, but does that really mean all religion and politics should be outlawed?

I love how you compare religion if totalitarian regime, it makes my heart warm. On the other hand I have to agree that it 'is' not bad argument.

The less we, players, shove up our political and religious beliefs during the game, the better - so during a game I don't want to see neither swastika nor christian cross.

But I think time plays a huge role in this. That's why americans can joke about Titanic but not about 9/11. For my countrymen all communism-related history is very recent, Poland up untill 1989 was ruled by puppet communist government and we still have some "fallout" from those events.

[c-ponter]

Ponter, I liked you. Please don't defend the Nazis. I get wanting to play devil's advocate, but the Nazis in WWII Era did a bunch of terrible things and Nazis today are awful people. They're less genocidal now and more white supremacist,  and all terrible and need no defense. Please can we stop with this nonsense.

as I said, I do not feel I am defending them, just haveing discussion about their beliefs.
Though I can see that I have caused some upset and apologize for this, so I will no longer comment on this as I feel many are taking it in a way I did not intend to come across as me defending the actions that these ideals have caused.
(Also its 1:30am and I am tired but do not want people to think I'm running away if I stop replying)

[Schwalbe]

And now my turn.

I apologize.

For being hot-headed, oversensitive fuck. Which is empowered both by my knowledge and because I live in a nation that still a bit unknowingly suffer from those regimes.

Still, c-ponter. Before you start discussing beliefs etc, try checking both sides. That's why I own Mein Kampf and Manifesto of Polish United Worker Party. Less people will want your head on the silver plate.

[Typhi]

Not going to report anyone for this.

[c-ponter]

I

Still, c-ponter. Before you start discussing beliefs etc, try checking both sides. That's why I own Mein Kampf and Manifesto of Polish United Worker Party. Less people will want your head on the silver plate.

I felt I had, which is why I was willing to put my opinion forward, having read Mein Kampf and many of Stalin's speeches, maybe I have written it off too much towards their personal interests and been slightly too accepting towards the political ideals  themselves.
But yes, I will tread more carefully in future, especially about issues as sensitive as this

[Richard LeMoon]

I think the line is drawn between the swastika and the hammer/sickle is not what they stood for, but how they are perceived and used today. Anyone tattooing a swastika on their arm is seen as saying "I hate Jews." Someone tattooing a hammer/sickle on their arm is seen as saying "Russia is cool." The one is used to intentionally offend people. The other is used because it is 'cool'. A lot like the Confederate flag in the USA (though it could be argued that that is used to offend more than the hammer/sickle).

[Schwalbe]

Well. Some people learn the hard way. It's not your fault, everyone must burn first before learning that.

I usually avoid shit like that, when in game - I block people trying to spread some belief bullcrap unless I know it's self-distant mocking or anything like that. I report people who use any regime symbols, because I believe they should not be used - they should be forgotten. And after years of being forgotten, their meaning, their connection being lost forever - then yeah, why not. But only then.

I don't mind talking with people about their beliefs, as long as they don't deny, close their eyes blindly, justify or lessen the atrocities of crazy people, covering the abittoir with them. As long as this is civilized discussion I'm okay with that. But when somebody try to impose me anything - he's a dead man.

Goddammit. Psychological tests claim that I have IQ of 180+ and I keep making a dumb bastard of myself at any bloody reason.
It's nothing good to be insane, brought up to live in insane surrounding of people not even aware how insane they are.

I'm sorry. I'm a bit down with... anything. And tired.


Richard LeMoon - interesting point of view. Look up the Gilder's and the ending of the latter butthurt post of mine, where I explain something more. That's interesting topic. But it's sad, that it's considered "cool"...

[BlackenedPies]

Hammer stands for workers and sickle for peasants, unified against the oppression observed in Russia.

It has since been associated with "Marxism-Leninism" which was coined by Stalin and later spread to other regimes (China, North Korea, Cuba).

Many communists argue that Marxism-Leninism is neither Marxism or Leninism, but state capitalism in the form of a dictatorship that was used to justify Stalin's ideology.

[Richard LeMoon]

I beg to differ on it being 'sad'. It ties in with what you are saying about forgetting what a symbol used to mean. If people are using something for no other reason than it is 'cool', with no ties to the political/religious/evil/whatever thing it used to stand for, then it is well on its way to becoming something else. That is progress.