Author Topic: Balloons with Health  (Read 15160 times)

Offline Inkjet

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 02:22:11 pm »
Reduce the damage modifier for balloons, reduce balloon health to scale. (yes this also scales with the helm tools which deal flechette damage)
Balloons break in the same number of shots but can be rebuilt and repaired to full health/functionality faster.

As a solid example, you could set balloon health to 595, and reduce Fletchette and Fire damage multipliers vs Balloon to .75, to maintain a similar ratio of damage-to-health. At this amount, the Barking Dog, Hellhound, and Lumberjack would still be able to destroy a balloon in 5, 2, and 3 unbuffed shots of standard ammo, respectively, balloons will have 75% health upon rebuild, and balloons could be rebuilt in (I think) 6 spanner hits, or ~4.2s instead of ~7s. Other multipliers vs Balloon would need to be reduced by ~50% as well to maintain balance.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2015, 12:01:23 am »
This has been mentioned before. Think overall everyone was in favor of a change to balloons.

I'd like it as it seems rather stupid to me to have both big and small balloons so easily mastered by one gun. Also am sick of the blender meta. Its just as boring as the merc/art meta, only it just gets over with faster.

Offline Dementio

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2015, 04:17:47 am »
Also am sick of the blender meta. Its just as boring as the merc/art meta, only it just gets over with faster.

So you would rather render it completely useless? Because that is what is going to be if it can't destroy balloons quick enough.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2015, 05:58:25 am »
Not completely useless, I just want to see vessels have options. Its boring seeing blenders go in and the fight decided quickly. Blending happens, ship disabled and generally unable to recover. No chance for any creative moves by pilots. If they do it, vet gunners know to use the blender to shoot out the guns so there is no way a kill ship can recover. I've seen that too many times. You see a possible comeback happening, then boom, gun out, then between the time it takes to rebuild + balloon rebuild it becomes a never ending losing battle.

Blenders being able to just sit on someone and grind them down with little effort does not show any skill. If anything, making it a little harder for blenders to cut through some balloons would give kill boats a chance to counter and recover. The blender couldn't just sit there doing the same thing over and over.

I don't get how folks can stand flying blenders all the time. Its depressing. Just sitting on top of enemies, blending, flaming...doing nothing. Its the faceroll build of GOIO. There is no skill or visible talent in it. A competitive meta built around blending and flaming is so sad. Back when both kill builds and disable builds were more even and the game was fast, there was always about a dozen different ways to approach each engagement. No meta was safe.

This is just the results of all the meta whining and a bogged down slow game. Its refreshing flying the dev app and meeting so many like minded people again. Stamina is indeed a bandaid but the core issues won't go away.

Offline c-ponter

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2015, 06:45:58 am »
I may have misunderstood slightly, but what your saying there is that a blender can just grind and there is no way to come back.
There are several reasons I do not agree with this
1: most good gunners know when facing a blender the main priority is to disable the Carro, from that point on it is easy to gain and hold the upper hand.
2: yes, once you are grounding out and have been disabled it is extremely hard to come back, the easiest solution to this is simple, don't. Just tank, save every single bit of permahull HP possible, and wait. Blender s are a kill, but a very slow one, the kill depends on your teammate winning against the other ship, if the teammate of the ship grounding out wins, or ignores the other ship to focus the blender it's entirely possible to come back. It just needs slightly more teamwork to counter than most other builds imo

Offline Dementio

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2015, 12:44:17 pm »
It is actually rather easy to win against a Blenderfish at least, its Carronade cannot aim as far down as some other guns can aim upwards (Gatling). In a head to head battle of Blenderfish vs Metamidion both have a chance to win, also Metamidion can bring drouge chute to stay in the air long enough to scare of the Fish with its Gatling.
No creative moves? Maybe not, but logical ones are entire possible: The enemy Blender has to stay above you and use physical contact to do some serious perma hull damage, if you are not already grinding on the ground you can easily still move pretty much anywhere and around anywhere, the Blender might be slower or has to turn around giving you more time to recover. Through this it is also possible to go below the Blender and support the ally if he is fighting on that altitude. Blenders vs Galleons are slightly in-effective when the Galleon bring a Lumberjack and a Hades since both guns will have arc unless it drops behind something.

Blenders are just as punishing as, say killships: If you let them get the upper hand, they will keep the upper hand. It's like staying static in mid-air and letting yourself be killed by hades/double artemis.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2015, 12:50:40 pm »
This I why I find gatling/Hades with Artemis such a versatile build.. I know I say it a lot but a good Artemis gunner can keep the meta disabled while the gat or Hades chips away at the enemy.
Same on Blenders, and the front gun is a nice easy target for just two Artemis shots.

However you put Princess Tutu on that carro and he will disable the Artemis first knowing he wants to keep his gun...*Shakes fist at Tutu*  8)

Offline Thomas

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2015, 03:05:01 pm »
I could have sworn I've talked about this before, but I can't seem to find it. Pretty much the exact same thoughts as Geo, reduce the multiplier and balloon health to compensate. Balloons get destroyed just as fast, but can be rebuilt and repaired faster.

Currently your balloon gets popped and takes a while to rebuild. During this time your ship is at a constant disadvantage from the falling and having your balloon count as hull. Once it's rebuilt and smacked with a mallet, you're only at 50% or so balloon HP and therefore 50% balloon effectiveness. This makes it harder to recover, and oh so very easy to pop your balloon again.


There's some good ways to fight a blender-fish. Usually just DPS them when they're in arc and chase them off long enough to recover. Some ships can't quite do this because their balloon is too high up on the ship, and/or their guns are too low.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2015, 07:34:27 pm »
Change in rebuild time would go a long way to fixing.

You all talk of counters to blenders which are pretty well known but you are counting on best case scenarios where a blender just sits there and lets you counter them. Competitive play rarely goes how you want it and if you know how to counter, they know how to counter in return. I've seen it too often. Ship being blended tries to move to get gun arcs, blender compensates and prevents blended vessel from countering. Frankly because its too easy to counter a counter. Specially with fast goldfish. Mostly because ships are too damn slow to do anything against a fish that has a vessel locked down. This then relies completely on an ally being free to save the blended vessel. Another reason why 3v3 has better gameplay. 2v2 is predictable and boring.

Frankly, we had better gameplay when the Carro could shoot down because back then ships were faster and arcs were better overall. Don't dare do it now. Hell I've been in many engagements where the blender didn't have to move far away to be able to angle down enough to hit the balloon every time. It isn't a perfect flat arc that prevents downward aiming. You can, with good positioning, hit downward targets very effectively.

Moving to counter often means the fish goes to side guns which are either flames or gats. They'll just keep circling and switching back and forth between carro and sides. So you say, shoot out the carro! I say...whenever is the carro going to be in arc or sitting still long enough to shoot it out? Competitive pilots will not sit there in front of a gun and let you shoot it out. Nor will they let you attempt to counter. If you fly a Pyra, you're too slow to turn or move to do this. Junker, you're constantly falling because the balloon is a huge liability. Galleon, same. In fact the blender can just sit up high forever on a galleon and never come anywhere near the guns. Squid can manage a counter however often times the blender gunner shoots out engines while blending. Its a smart move, it just means the squid might as well suicide as they'll never recover.

Using pub game reasoning for keeping things as are? Thats just great. You pick the LCD of player to base counters off of and even then they'll not have the experience to be able to pull it off. Argument is invalid. The balloon system needs to change. If you want noobs to stay, blender buffing is not it. There are two types of matches which make noobs rage quit the most on. Munker fights and blender/flamer fights. Noobs hate the feeling of helplessness and outside of being bounced around with mines, blenders do that the most.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2015, 08:20:02 pm »
I say nerf the carronade's downward arc more and keep nerfing until complaints stop.

Alternate idea: heavy clip loses flechette damage, does only shatter.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2015, 02:23:13 am »
That would make sense, given that heavy clip is basically firing a slug instead of shrapnel.

Offline Gambrill

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2015, 03:24:18 am »
I saw an earlier post talking about that they are worried that the carronade would be less effective against certain ships more than others if we buffed the health.

 But i gotta admit doesn't that sounds good in a way? You can't prepare for every situation in real life so why in GoIo. It might stop the whole gat + mortar combo if some ships were more resilient to Armour Penetrating weaponry, or others being more resilient to Explosive weaponry, Obviously this could be offset with a weakness too to certain types too.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2015, 04:42:37 am »
but some ships (junker) already ARE more resistant to armor penetrating weaponry.

Offline Gambrill

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2015, 04:50:07 am »
but some ships (junker) already ARE more resistant to armor penetrating weaponry.

As in the modifiers were actually changed or just because of its shape its easier to hit the balloon rather than the hull?

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Balloons with Health
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2015, 07:26:17 am »
The junker has a small hull that can be shielded by the balloon. It also has the second highest armor rating. The crew positions allow it to be rebuilt by all 3 if necessary.