Pyramidion needs more love?

[Indreams]

This might be a little preemptive post. As far as I know, next ship balances will buff spire and squid and nerf pyramidions.
The spire and squid buff is definitely needed. The spire definitely needs a little buff to be good.

I can't disagree that pyres need a nerf. Pyra's two forward facing guns, small profile, decent health, ease of engineering, and high maximum velocity (not acceleration) makes it a force to be reckoned.

But I am little disappointed. When I joined Guns of Icarus, Pyramidion was the vanguard, ramming ship. But through a series of patches and developments in tactics, Ramming gradually became less effective. Now, Pyramidion is better off pointing at the enemy than ramming the enemy (unless that enemy happens to be a Spire).

I'm scared that Pyramidion nerf will take pyramidion out as an effective ramming ship.

I want an active ramming ship. I enjoy sniping, but I also enjoy ramming (so the pilot is also doing something). I'd rather not see a pyra nerf. I want to see a creative solution instead.

This is my opinion. What are your thoughts? Would you like a pyra nerf? Do you have a fresh idea to keep the game balanced?

[Dementio]

I don't think a Pyramidion nerf is needed or actually even possible without creating either the worst ship in the game or an entirely different one.

No matter what, you always hit the Pyramidions armor and the main engineer already as to fix all engines on his own at the same time on that already slow accelerating ship, which calls for pilot tools to be used which calls for engine damage that can't be fixed when armor damage.
The balloon is covered by hull making it more protected, so you will have at least one engineer that might be able to shoot back at the enemy while the other can't keep up with repairing.

The Pyramidion is and probably always was a good if not the best ramming ship in the game. High top speed, high mass -> much damage.
The thing is, ships can already semi-easily escape any Pyramidion ram or out-tank it if the Pyramidion isn't careful, that adds to Pyramidion skill btw. So if you nerf turning speed or any speed value of the Pyramidion then the Galleon might turn out to be more successful with ramming enemy ships.
Another thing is, if a Pyramidion has gat/mortar on the front it is questionable if rams are still necessary.
Rams themselves often do more bad than good for those that over-worship it "I am gonna ram this ship and it will suddenly for no reason explode into dust the second I touch it!", these people will usually fail in ramming and more often than not fly the Pyramidion at the same time.

Two forward facing guns are not a reason for that ship to get nerfed, nor is that amount of health. Spire has 3 semi forward facing guns plus one heavy gun and a Mobula can get easy quadfecta with pretty much everything, has the same amount of perma hull health as a Pyramdion and only 50 less armor health than a Pyramidion and of course exceeds in vertical mobility. Now that's some crazy shit right there.


I don't think a nerf for the Pyramidion is necessary in any way, I would almost suggest to buff it instead if only that gat/mortar wouldn't be as powerful of a combination as it is.
In order to "balance" that ship differently I think all other ships have to be "balanced" accordingly too. The Squid and Spire buff is essentially all about making them more effective against Pyramidions mostly, from what I could gather at least.

[Arturo Sanchez]

The pyra has plenty of weaknesses. It can be easily out flown if you use the correct tools.

For example its vertical movement is comparably weak. so like a galleon fly above and below and use guns with superior vertical arc.

If it tries to chase you, it has weak turning so just kero out of arc. Even the claw can't keep up with that. The pilot can only use 1 tool. If its using claw, beat it on the vertical front.

If its hydroing after you. kero to its side.

[David Dire]

I believe the Pyramidion is really only useful due to it's Metamidion loadout, as (said before) you have one engineer working his wrenches off repairing all three engines and the Hull at the same time. And, there is no way his captain and enemies haven't instantly killed the Engines due to the constant need for Phoenix Claw and how easy it is to hit the Pyra's Engines. With engines that dont last longer then a full 40 seconds of combat, it's pretty hard to maintain them and the Hull at the same time. So you can't, A, take on more then two enemies alone (you probably cant with any other ship too, but with the Pyra it's even worse) or B, fight without weapons meant for killing quickly. Probably why Metamidion and Mine + Flamer is the only reliable loadout.

And you know, it's slow turning speed doesnt exactly help with Ramming.

Although I honestly thing the Spire needs more attention because it's a Glass Cannon made of glass salvaged from the Titanic and you have a better chance to lose with it than win. Unless you have an Ally babying you.

Just my two cents though.

[Crafeksterty]

The pyra is not as flexible as other ships but in its strengths is a bit too strong.

Most other ships have these huge easy to spot weaknesses. While the pyra does have weaknesses doesnt reveal them as easily at all.
Meaning his strength overpowers other ships easier than other ships overpowering the pyra.

The Squid and Spire buff is essentially all about making them more effective against Pyramidions mostly, from what I could gather at least.

Not true. The squid always needed its buff, and the buff on the spire is to make itself forgiven more. Spire being the biggest ship in the game, yett it has the most difficult set up and unforgiving armor/health, with its speed and health bonus it should be able to get its guns at the range and spot it needs to and able to survive versus 2 guns with 4 guns. Because currently 4 guns on a spire is almost as equal as 2 guns on a pyra/junker. The squids big weakness is not being able to do damage, with the buff on speed and arguably health, it will be able to jump in and out and do what it is meant to do in a more effecient way. And thats getting behind enemy lines from any direction and annoy or disrupt the enemy, with the buff it will do that with the for sure chance of getting out or exploit weaknesses.



Im on the side of pyra not really needing a nerf, and rather most ships getting a buff. But the pyra does have so many easy set ups and playstyle in comparison to other ships it does need to be less forgiving. When people fly pyra, i always found the crew of it relax more. Its ramming ability is still good, people just prioritise weapons more. Moonshine/kyrosine + impact bumpers arent as utilised. I mean a pyra with moonshine + Impact bumpers should be able to take a big chunk of a galleons armor/health despite the galleon being heavier. Its just not safe because the galleon may still have his guns up

[Dementio]

The Squid and Spire buff is essentially all about making them more effective against Pyramidions mostly, from what I could gather at least.

Not true.

With that I meant that half the posts I percieve about ships that are to be buffed are about how bad they currently perform against a Pyramidion and how easy it is for that ship to keep arcs on them and whatnot.

I don't see any strength that the Pyramidion has, but that's only me I suppose.

[HamsterIV]

The Pyra's greatest strength is its repair configuration. The hull and balloon points are close to guns and there are no bits of ship geometry to get stuck on. An engie can tank hull without decreasing DPS at all. Also all the engines can be reached by one engineer in about 2 seconds. Muse could nerf armor, speed, and maneuverability but the pyra would remain the premier brawling ship just because it is so easy to keep alive.

[Replaceable]

Pyramidion: A ship that, in order to do anything needs a helm tool since it's default is so bad. Need to turn/keep arcs? Phoenix claw. Need to accelerate anywhere? Moonshine or kero. Need to go up? hydro. The pyra sucks at doing any of those things on it's own without helm tools not even dramatic movement just normally. Not to mention how much dependency captains have on buffs.

2 guns is not OP. Galleon, junker and mobula (and spire I suppose) have trifectas. 3>2.

Pyras are all hull. Take piercing and you win. 

Main guns + engines closely spaced making them weak to hwatcha.

Pyras are really weak! Nerf not needed.

Stongest features are the nose cone- and it's nice on board layout for engineering.

I think people perceive the pyra to need a nerf because it is used quite a lot. It is not OP and I'm fairly sure can be out done by other builds easily. See it's weakness vs. piercing damage. As Daniel said: shoot anywhere- hit the hull, force the hull engi to repair hull, reducing it's effectiveness as no engines because pyras cant do shit on their own.

[Kamoba]

Squid and spire buff needed? Yes. Pyra nerf needed? Maybe not in the ship itself? Maybe not.
Metamidion over-powered? Not at all, a good shot on one Artemis is enough to keep a metamidion from killing anything.. Gatling Artemis.is greatly under valued because it is so much easier to explain the gatling mortar combo to pubs meaning it's the first thing most people learn.

Pyras have their weaknesses its just how you learn to use them.

[Indreams]

So, in my altered conclusion,

Pyramidion is a powerful ship. Two front facing light guns, coupled with its configuration makes it a good brawler. Whether it needs nerf is somewhat debatable, but the upcoming balance change could be unpopular.

I am of the opinion and impression that pyramidion has gradually phased away from a ram ship into a close range ship. Since Pyramidion was the ram ship, the game is lacking in rammings.

I simplify (little unjustly) ships into Long-range, Short-range, and Rams. Most ships, with appropriate build, can be short or long range, but not many ships can appropriately ram. I like to ram, piloting becomes ten times exciting.


I want an alternate ram ship. Maybe I can master goldfish or galleon rammings, but I think I want a new ship. I'm not sure at this point.

[HamsterIV]

A lot of newer players people did not know the Pyra pre Mass update (1.2 I think). That ship was a beast. It could use helium and cute vent to dodge hwacha fire from medium range. It also turned much faster than the current iteration. Also this was before the flack arming time when gat/flack was a thing. If you were good enough and could spare your main engineer you could get a gat/flack/gat trifecta. The mass update was one of the biggest pyra nerfs IMO and is probably the reason why you see some  of the older players favoring junkers.

As for ramming, it is more a situational thing than a ship thing. I have seen spires and squids ram successfully and seen pyras fail. A captains job is to chauffeur his crew to a position in the battle field where they can do the most damage to the enemy with the guns. Ramming should be done in very specific situations. Too many novice pilots ram to make themselves feel like they have accomplished something instead of trusting their crew to deal dammage.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

I'm actually against nerfing this. Because frankly, the current Pyra is a far cry from the classic Pyra. We've lost a lot of players who just loved the Pyra to death not because of it's meta but because it was their favorite ship. All because people complained it was OP.

It was never OP, people were just too stupid to figure out how to fly against it. But this problem was brought forward even greater with 1.2. When 1.2 hit and turned the game from fun into molasses, the Pyra became all powerful because none of the other ships could do anything or counter it. With all the counters gone, the Pyra could not be equaled and it became OP overnight.

Then it has been a year of Muse constantly nerfing the Pyra to this point when they are finally buffing the ships which used to counter the Pyra. I guarantee you this that if the nerfs go through on the Pyra, you'll all be screaming it needs a buff because every ship will be outclassing it.

If the ship is going to be a lawn dart, keep it that way! If its going to be weak and squishy, give it a turnrate buff. Muse has gotten themselves in this routine of nerfing everything because frankly, people are idiots and dammit Muse is too kind! They see a good pilot and yell, "NERF THAT SHIP!" They don't stop and think that maybe it would be better to buff or adjust other ships to counter. Or that it isn't the ship but the pilot behind it. This is again why 1.1 was the best version of this game. Everything had counters and weak vessels could become godlike in the hands of skilled pilots. Then the game turned into an endless nerffest for a year and now we've got boring metas and even more boring disable metas.

[Indreams]

I think the weak vessels are still powerful in hands of experienced players.

Squid is supposed to be pretty bad, but I've played several matches where I couldn't even scratch them.

And I think the counter to pyres changed from squids and spires to junkers and mobulas, who can often maneuver to the blind side and deal massive light-gun damage.

If the ship is going to be a lawn dart, keep it that way!

YES! I was trying really hard to figure out how to say that.

I used to turn pyra in neutral, aim for the enemy ship, pop moonshine for a massive speed build up, cruise on kero, and rocket towards an enemy.
If they were smart, they would dodge and we would have a fair challenge to take on. If they were unaware, we would shoot through them like a missile.
Tactic revolved around my piloting skills, my main engineers ability to give me all the engines, my artemis gunner's ability to disable enemy engines/guns, and my gatling engineer's ability to strip hull very very quickly.

One could make the argument that rams are supposed to be situational. They wouldn't be wrong. But I think they've taken out a big chunk of the game/fun when tactics involving a ram are no longer valid.

When I play on a Pyramidion (I rarely pilot it now), I find that the armor is good for half a ram and maneuverability is bad to commit to a battle.

[Saull]

I sorta feel the nerf is less for balance and more to just flat out discourage its overuse. Though, While it's really common to hear more experienced players speak less of a pyras attribute, the pyra is still the go to ship in the eyes of newer crew. (So I suppose it's more for balance from that perspective) With that in mind I don't think the pyra needs any straight nerfs but I wouldn't mind a rebalance. I think the change is going to be to hull right? That'd make it a bit more vulnerable to longer range explosives that do less dmg like the arty. A straight charge maybe more difficult but if the health nerf comes with a mobility or acceleration buff I wouldn't mind too much

[Indreams]

I need to add to my previous post.

Thinking of it, that Ram, Artemis, Gatling build's effectiveness was probably exaggerated. It was one of my first original builds. It stomped many pub matches until a certain nerf (I think it was the armor) made me quit it.