Tame The Trolls

[Arturo Sanchez]

Perhaps a easy solution with some immersion is ingame now.

Rank.

You characters each have a rank which determines where they play.

So, if a ship unanimously downvotes a player. That player is kicked and loses 5 levels. If they contniously troll, they will be stuck in novice where admins can easily pick them from their rank vrs game hours. Then ban them from the game, could even be automatic.

Any system that has downvoting is easily abusable. I mean I can easily see someone like Lueosi being downvoted to hell because he's far too tough competition.

What I'm curious about is how MM's invisible ranking system works.


And any suggestion of outright community segregation is the dumbest thing I've heard considering the size of the player base. You can't increase the amount of decent players unless you train up the new blood. Really gotta emphasise, we DON'T HAVE THE PLAYERS TO SIMPLY SEPARATE EVERYONE INTO ELITIST CLIQUES.


It can work on a small scale. But anymore would damage the playerbase's potential for growth. For one thing.

Novice matches are good. Limiting on ship types is good. Limiting on gun builds is not.
Because from memory I remember the gun builds on novice being kinda bad on some presets. I think Novice matches should be a mode where all of the noobish experimentation can take place, so that it all gets out of their system before they graduate.

Also tool sets for novices. I say do the following.
Lock spy glass on all non-pilots as piloting tools.
For engies to have 1 fixing tool and 1 anti fire. The combination doesnt matter, but there must be 1 of each type on the tools taken.
Gunners can pick their ammo. However they MUST have a wrench and spy glass.
Only pilots get outright freedom. Why? Because the more blame you force on a pilot, the more clearer it is the responsibility of a good pilot is. And by forcing new players to try all three classes. They'll be forced to appreciate their role in the game.

And I am an advocate of forcing novice matches, and making the gradution condition to be changed to lvl up as x lvl on all 3 classes. But instead of the fairly high lvl for graduation that it is now. Lower the condition from... 7 or 8? (I think its 8 to graduate) to lvl 4 on all 3 classes.

[Indreams]

With novice load outs, lock non-class tools. Spy Glass, Monkey Wrench, and Greased (or lesmok? heatsink?).

Don't lock the tri-tools. Especially that of engineers. Let the crazy load out ideas "all get out of their system before they graduate."

New players will be able to experiment on tools by choosing the class of tools they want to experiment, but not come out used using crazy tools as their non-main tool.

And all for not locking guns on novice matches. Maybe limit the choice (like, no mines or harpoons) but let them get it "our of their systems before they graduate."

[Replaceable]

Flamers are banned in novice matches.
And they still should be, greenhorn players cannot deal with fire and they are OP.

They aren't ready for chem spray yet.

You could argue that this forces them to learn but I'd say it just punishes them rather than punishing them.

[Arturo Sanchez]

With novice load outs, lock non-class tools. Spy Glass, Monkey Wrench, and Greased (or lesmok? heatsink?).

Don't lock the tri-tools. Especially that of engineers. Let the crazy load out ideas "all get out of their system before they graduate."

New players will be able to experiment on tools by choosing the class of tools they want to experiment, but not come out used using crazy tools as their non-main tool.

And all for not locking guns on novice matches. Maybe limit the choice (like, no mines or harpoons) but let them get it "our of their systems before they graduate."

I'm not saying lock the triple slots.

Gunners can bring whatever in those. But locked in engie tools (wrench) and pilot tools (spy glass)
Engies just need to bring 1 repair and 1 anti fire. but otherwise set to however they want. They can bring whatever ammo...but not allowed anything but spy glass as pilot tool.
Pilot gets the most freedom because of the greater responsibility (that and pilots dun tend to really fix and gun wen things are going right)

[Indreams]

The engineer requirement is my thing. I'd like them to try their monkey, spanner, mallet build in novice matches first. I'd like them to try their buff, chem, extinguish in novice matches.


I really want a good tutorial in the game (instead of novice matches). I want something like the tutorials in League, where the player is pitted against easy bots and taught most of the mechanics of the game. I think this will be possible with the co-op techs.


But this thread went from trolls to new players... I think one of the reason's this is so is that most "troll" actions in GOIO are so similar to "novice" actions.

[Arturo Sanchez]

The engineer requirement is my thing. I'd like them to try their monkey, spanner, mallet build in novice matches first. I'd like them to try their buff, chem, extinguish in novice matches.


I really want a good tutorial in the game (instead of novice matches). I want something like the tutorials in League, where the player is pitted against easy bots and taught most of the mechanics of the game. I think this will be possible with the co-op techs.


But this thread went from trolls to new players... I think one of the reason's this is so is that most "troll" actions in GOIO are so similar to "novice" actions.

Potentially that's what Co-op could do, since it will bring actual bots into the game. However... I see an issue with achieve grinding with it.

Maybe more options on sandbox mode or extra crap in tutorial. Like basics tutorial (each class) and advanced which like a mock battle that needs a full crew.

I mean you can have bot pilots when co-op comes. But it won't teach what good piloting is.

[Patched Wizard]

Can we have a wall of trolls we like?

#TeamButBlaster

#TeamTank

NO. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. NO.

There is no "TeamButtBlaster" there is just "ButtBlaster"

[Fiesty]

Perhaps a easy solution with some immersion is ingame now.

Rank.

You characters each have a rank which determines where they play.

So, if a ship unanimously downvotes a player. That player is kicked and loses 5 levels. If they contniously troll, they will be stuck in novice where admins can easily pick them from their rank vrs game hours. Then ban them from the game, could even be automatic.

Any system that has downvoting is easily abusable. I mean I can easily see someone like Lueosi being downvoted to hell because he's far too tough competition.

What I'm curious about is how MM's invisible ranking system works.


And any suggestion of outright community segregation is the dumbest thing I've heard considering the size of the player base. You can't increase the amount of decent players unless you train up the new blood. Really gotta emphasise, we DON'T HAVE THE PLAYERS TO SIMPLY SEPARATE EVERYONE INTO ELITIST CLIQUES.


It can work on a small scale. But anymore would damage the playerbase's potential for growth. For one thing.

Novice matches are good. Limiting on ship types is good. Limiting on gun builds is not.
Because from memory I remember the gun builds on novice being kinda bad on some presets. I think Novice matches should be a mode where all of the noobish experimentation can take place, so that it all gets out of their system before they graduate.

Also tool sets for novices. I say do the following.
Lock spy glass on all non-pilots as piloting tools.
For engies to have 1 fixing tool and 1 anti fire. The combination doesnt matter, but there must be 1 of each type on the tools taken.
Gunners can pick their ammo. However they MUST have a wrench and spy glass.
Only pilots get outright freedom. Why? Because the more blame you force on a pilot, the more clearer it is the responsibility of a good pilot is. And by forcing new players to try all three classes. They'll be forced to appreciate their role in the game.

And I am an advocate of forcing novice matches, and making the gradution condition to be changed to lvl up as x lvl on all 3 classes. But instead of the fairly high lvl for graduation that it is now. Lower the condition from... 7 or 8? (I think its 8 to graduate) to lvl 4 on all 3 classes.

You did not read my post.

Downvotes are within a ship only, and require unanimous vote for punishment.

This is difficult to abuse unless its an entire ship of trolls with the exception of one person.

[Arturo Sanchez]

Perhaps a easy solution with some immersion is ingame now.

Rank.

You characters each have a rank which determines where they play.

So, if a ship unanimously downvotes a player. That player is kicked and loses 5 levels. If they contniously troll, they will be stuck in novice where admins can easily pick them from their rank vrs game hours. Then ban them from the game, could even be automatic.

Any system that has downvoting is easily abusable. I mean I can easily see someone like Lueosi being downvoted to hell because he's far too tough competition.

What I'm curious about is how MM's invisible ranking system works.


And any suggestion of outright community segregation is the dumbest thing I've heard considering the size of the player base. You can't increase the amount of decent players unless you train up the new blood. Really gotta emphasise, we DON'T HAVE THE PLAYERS TO SIMPLY SEPARATE EVERYONE INTO ELITIST CLIQUES.


It can work on a small scale. But anymore would damage the playerbase's potential for growth. For one thing.

Novice matches are good. Limiting on ship types is good. Limiting on gun builds is not.
Because from memory I remember the gun builds on novice being kinda bad on some presets. I think Novice matches should be a mode where all of the noobish experimentation can take place, so that it all gets out of their system before they graduate.

Also tool sets for novices. I say do the following.
Lock spy glass on all non-pilots as piloting tools.
For engies to have 1 fixing tool and 1 anti fire. The combination doesnt matter, but there must be 1 of each type on the tools taken.
Gunners can pick their ammo. However they MUST have a wrench and spy glass.
Only pilots get outright freedom. Why? Because the more blame you force on a pilot, the more clearer it is the responsibility of a good pilot is. And by forcing new players to try all three classes. They'll be forced to appreciate their role in the game.

And I am an advocate of forcing novice matches, and making the gradution condition to be changed to lvl up as x lvl on all 3 classes. But instead of the fairly high lvl for graduation that it is now. Lower the condition from... 7 or 8? (I think its 8 to graduate) to lvl 4 on all 3 classes.

You did not read my post.

Downvotes are within a ship only, and require unanimous vote for punishment.

This is difficult to abuse unless its an entire ship of trolls with the exception of one person.

Still abusable. Just smaller in scale.

[Richard LeMoon]

I think a reputation system would be a good thing, but I would not make it just a general one. The current commendations system is bad. I no longer give out commendations to people unless I have played quite a few games with them, and know they are not jerks. Too many times I have given someone a commendation in a match, only to find out that they are a complete arsehat in the next match, where they end up on my blocked list.

What is needed is a multi-tier, dynamic, public viewable ranking system. Much like Amazon's product ratings. You like someone a lot, and you can give them 5 stars. If your opinions of that player changes, you can change the number of stars. It should also be divided by player level. Every time you go up 5 levels, your previous rank is locked, and you can re-rate players as your new level. What this does is give meaning to data. You can see by your ratings how many stars you are getting from different ranks of players. You can see how many people rated you. You can see what ratings you got from which other rankings when you were a level 1-5, or 15-20 level player. Other players can see all of this as well.

It is hard to mess up someone's rating when you can see exactly how many people rated in exactly what way. If you have a solid 5 star rating from a lot of people, and suddenly get a bunch of 1 stars from level 1-5s, it is pretty easy to see that a new group has decided to troll you.

You should also be able to see how many ratings a player has given out, and how many stars. It is then also easy to see a ratings troll and have all of their ratings removed.

To prevent mass rating trolls, keep with the system of only rating people you are in a match with.

[Arturo Sanchez]

I think a reputation system would be a good thing, but I would not make it just a general one. The current commendations system is bad. I no longer give out commendations to people unless I have played quite a few games with them, and know they are not jerks. Too many times I have given someone a commendation in a match, only to find out that they are a complete arsehat in the next match, where they end up on my blocked list.

What is needed is a multi-tier, dynamic, public viewable ranking system. Much like Amazon's product ratings. You like someone a lot, and you can give them 5 stars. If your opinions of that player changes, you can change the number of stars. It should also be divided by player level. Every time you go up 5 levels, your previous rank is locked, and you can re-rate players as your new level. What this does is give meaning to data. You can see by your ratings how many stars you are getting from different ranks of players. You can see how many people rated you. You can see what ratings you got from which other rankings when you were a level 1-5, or 15-20 level player. Other players can see all of this as well.

It is hard to mess up someone's rating when you can see exactly how many people rated in exactly what way. If you have a solid 5 star rating from a lot of people, and suddenly get a bunch of 1 stars from level 1-5s, it is pretty easy to see that a new group has decided to troll you.

You should also be able to see how many ratings a player has given out, and how many stars. It is then also easy to see a ratings troll and have all of their ratings removed.

To prevent mass rating trolls, keep with the system of only rating people you are in a match with.

This is so redundant and pointlessly convoluted that I swear you haven't fully thought out the full implications of this system.

This isn't goddamn facebook. This isn't goddamn Amazon. A player is not your servant to dance for you nor a product to review and judge. And no person should have the power to demean people's value through such an arbitrary means (arbitrary in the sense that you're permanently judging a person with what little you know) in such a way that intimidation is the way to keep people in check.

And adding to that, even if that were the case, such a system shouldn't be so pointlessly complicated in a game that celebrates how streamline it is.

This game is not a popularity contest. And any systems that makes it so, gets a big N-O.

[Richard LeMoon]

I see you decrying everyone's thoughts, but offering none of your own. What is your solution to trolls and hostile/abusive players?

[Arturo Sanchez]

I see you decrying everyone's thoughts, but offering none of your own. What is your solution to trolls and hostile/abusive players?

I already gave it. No rating system isn't gonna fix anything. Its the teachings of fundementals and the encouragement of natural progression.

A large majority of these "trolls" are just incompetent players. Read alot of the comments, you'll see that many say so.

The real trolls are few and far between and very quickly they become less significant after the sale period.

[nanoduckling]

The thing is while there is a distinction between a incapable player and a troll, some incapable players are asshats. Don't know how to fire a hades or a lumberjack, fair enough. Not good at keeping up chem cycles because you haven't learnt them yet. Okay. Have an silly loadout when you join and want an explanation for why you should bring something different. No worries.

You haven't played the tutorial, not okay. If I try to compromise with you and find a loadout that lets you play the class you want,and you insist on bring buff/chem/ext with lochnagar, not okay. You go pilot without enough experience to handle the role and responsibility and don't run it past your crew first, not okay. Under pressure you insist on ignoring your crewmates and captain. Not okay.

Sure you aren't trolling, but you are an ass. I don't want you banned, but I also never want to play with you again.

As to the ideas presented. The idea of using positive reinforcement is fine by me, it is what the commendation system is supposed to do. The calls I see for reforming the commendation system miss the point, it is a psychological trick to get people to behave, it works on the edge cases, and comprehensive rating system for people is unlikely to make matters better.

As for the tribunal system from LoL, meh. By reputation LoL doesn't exactly have the best community on the internets. But, I don't care, give the CA mods and CA a bit more power, a bit less, tweaking it to find a happy medium  is fine by me.

I don't want to rank players by some rating system, what would it do? I still either join on my friends, who are mostly decent folks from what I can tell, or I join via matchmaker in which case rankings wont do squat without some complex datamining (affinity analysis? Are we thinking of getting the folks from OkCupid in here or something to do this?). I don't especially care to the details of how we police trolling, be it the current CA system, or some variant of the tribunal proposed. What I want is greater control over who I play with.

I want this because I don't see trolling as the major problem, I report and block trolls pretty quickly. The problem is asshats, and you cant ban people just for being asshats. At the moment we have no way to avoid them.

[Wundsalz]

I don't think gois community is at a state where trolling is a serious problem. I'm against stuff like a tribunal thingy or any punishment system along the line. Mostly because I expect too many people not to be able to distinguish between trolls and people who have got communication problems (deactivated voice chat/ language etc) or just suck at the game etc. Personally I think the ratio of matches where I'm sure I've got someone on my ship who intentionally wants to ruin my match to normal matches is smaller than 1:250.

However I'd appreciate some more noticeable positive reinforcement. The commendation system we've currently got isn't exactly cutting edge.