Author Topic: Ability to KO crew members  (Read 10373 times)

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Ability to KO crew members
« on: January 01, 2015, 08:20:10 pm »
Just a random thought.

After looking at this stamina thing.

What would happen if you get shot and like jumping off the ship you blackout and respawn? (suffice to say flamers don't count).

Dat merc shot that knocks out the pilot for like 5 seconds. Maybe even put it into a special kind of ammo as opposed to a whole new blanket mechanic.

Like concussion ammo. Less dmg on ship by like half (range too?) but has ability to KO crew.


hell it could either be an ammo that mimic loch in nature where it gives only 1 shot (but no gun dmg on shot) or maybe it could be an extra attribute of loch.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 08:25:39 pm by Ceresbane »

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2015, 08:21:52 pm »
No.  Getting shot would happen to EVERYONE with a single Hwacha barrage on most ships.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2015, 08:22:56 pm »
No.  Getting shot would happen to EVERYONE with a single Hwacha barrage on most ships.

I amended my post to consider that. but meh just a random amusing thought.

Offline obliviondoll

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2015, 08:45:51 pm »
Many game theory articles I've read deal with player agency. Simply put, taking control from a player is something that should be done in a very limited way and only for significant mistakes.

In GoIO, players only have 2 scenarios in which they lose control of their character during normal gameplay:

1. Your ship is destroyed. This is a relatively rare event and can usually be considered a significant failure by your ship's crew. If not a failure, it was a planned and expected trade of your ship for an enemy (or enemies plural), in which case the downtime is in a way still controlled by the players.
2. You fell off your ship. Once a player understands the game, this is extremely rare. If it happens unexpectedly, it's a signficant failure, and even then it's not a severe punishment, with near-instant respawning back on board the ship.

Adding a third - particularly one that isn't able to be directly influenced by the target player - seems to me like it would probably be a bad idea.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2015, 08:50:39 pm »
lol I'm an experienced player and I still fall off the ship.

When a ship turns, the ground that use to be there has pivoted, so sometimes I misstep and fall off. Plus seeing as ur actually on the ship, especially at the front. Your only reference for when the ship turns is the assets round you as opposed to the ship itself visibly turning.


and to counter that point-that theory would only apply if guns didn't have a level of tactical thinking behind it. Like shooting down guns and engines, balloons as well as hull.

As opposed to a traditional dog fight game where getting hit directly depletes your ship's hp. Guns of Icarus is not a simple dps war as you would illustrate with point 1.

You are streamlining a complex game philosophy. I don't know what level of education you are, but at a certain level, merely referencing knowledge as opposed to applying them is a no go in acedemia. And its really a none talking point as is and frankly quite unbecoming.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 08:57:16 pm by Ceresbane »

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2015, 09:13:26 pm »
Quote
After looking at this stamina thing.

wheeerrrre....?

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2015, 09:37:26 pm »
look at the screenshot thread. I randomly found a thing via my bad loading in time.

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2015, 09:59:03 pm »
lol I'm an experienced player and I still fall off the ship.

When a ship turns, the ground that use to be there has pivoted, so sometimes I misstep and fall off. Plus seeing as ur actually on the ship, especially at the front. Your only reference for when the ship turns is the assets round you as opposed to the ship itself visibly turning.
I don't fall off any ship unless the geometry catches me and sometimes the Junker fore gun and the Squid because Squids.
Also, I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding of how ship turning works. You can run in a straight line from one end of a ship to the other while you captain is spinning in circles with buffed engines and claw on and the ship won't move you or adjust your movement at all. When you fall off a ship, it's always your fault.

And oblivion makes some really good points. The physical impediment of a crew is very rare and always due to a failure of some kind. Whether someone on your ship or by your ally, punishing a player by taking them out of control is very rare and should be. Adding a gun or ammo that does that would really effect balance, and ruin a lot of what the game really is about. Having a gun that attacks players is, in my opinion, only slightly less inane than boarding. The 1 on 1 combat mechanic is silly in this game, because players aren't important the way teams are. Having a gun that targets players feels wrong

Also, let's hold off on the stamina discussion. This feature is still very much preliminary and no one knows what exactly how it's going to work, so using it in a discussion at this point is not productive

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2015, 10:14:00 pm »
lol I'm an experienced player and I still fall off the ship.

When a ship turns, the ground that use to be there has pivoted, so sometimes I misstep and fall off. Plus seeing as ur actually on the ship, especially at the front. Your only reference for when the ship turns is the assets round you as opposed to the ship itself visibly turning.
I don't fall off any ship unless the geometry catches me and sometimes the Junker fore gun and the Squid because Squids.
Also, I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding of how ship turning works. You can run in a straight line from one end of a ship to the other while you captain is spinning in circles with buffed engines and claw on and the ship won't move you or adjust your movement at all. When you fall off a ship, it's always your fault.

And oblivion makes some really good points. The physical impediment of a crew is very rare and always due to a failure of some kind. Whether someone on your ship or by your ally, punishing a player by taking them out of control is very rare and should be. Adding a gun or ammo that does that would really effect balance, and ruin a lot of what the game really is about. Having a gun that attacks players is, in my opinion, only slightly less inane than boarding. The 1 on 1 combat mechanic is silly in this game, because players aren't important the way teams are. Having a gun that targets players feels wrong

Also, let's hold off on the stamina discussion. This feature is still very much preliminary and no one knows what exactly how it's going to work, so using it in a discussion at this point is not productive

I'm just referencing exactly what I'm experiencing. I memorise exactly where I am and when the ship is stationary it shows. I only turn to face the key part I wanna interact with.

But like say a junker turns I notice the access to lower guns moves when I'm standing directly in front of the front gun and the ship is turning, I am definitely not where I should be by pressing exactly backwards.



as I see it KOing a player is not nearly as bad destroying a heavy gun or a main engine or a balloon. respawning from a fall is like 5 seconds? Maybe  even less if you discount the falling part and only the bit where the black out animation begins

rebuilding a part about the same?

Where 1 has limited health when brought back into action.
The other is moved back into place where they can instantly spring into action.

Plus unlike a part a knocked out player is instantly "rebuilt", no priority min maxing needed.


And this is more a thought exercise than anything.


In any case, coding a mechanic where you create a hit box for players does seem trouble some. A good work around for it though is using the hit boxes on interactive parts like guns and helm (tho the helm itself currently has no hit box).

If it were a single shot type ammo with a heavy nerf on damage in favour of this KO effect, either by stamina depletion or as simple as a direct hit on said gun/helm while a player is occupying it.

would those attributes balance things out? Literally a high risk, high reward ammo-type. Like the loch but far more specialised. As it doesn't damage the gun, it merely does next to nothing if it misses a very specific part of the ship, that relies on gambling the probability that someone is occupying said part when that part is shot.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 10:29:35 pm by Ceresbane »

Offline Dementio

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 07:18:48 am »
I can't see how anybody will be happy when constantly being knocked out.

Plus unlike a part a knocked out player is instantly "rebuilt", no priority min maxing needed.
A not knocked out player can "instantly" react to anything, thus can immediately start tanking or go to another gun to damage the enemy or even destroy the enemy gun.

If I want to knock out players, I will use carronades or so much piercing damage that one can't help but repair that armor or even both or just an artemis.
By disabling destroying parts of a ship one can already simulate this "KO" ability.


In fact, you just gave a few reasons why not to ko players: It takes a relatively good aim ability to knock out a player that is instantly "rebuilt" and can continue playing the game. If a player is knocked for only a few seconds, is it worth the trouble? If it's an ammo type with a super nerf on it, then I will choose lochnagar above it, even on flamers. If it's a gun, than this feature will never be implemented.
If any gun that directly hits a player (not aoe or flamer) KOs them then it would probably still be a rare enough occurrence that this feature could be implemented, but I would still be against it, because of how little the gain is.

Offline Caprontos

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2015, 09:55:08 am »
I am pretty sure this idea was asked in a fireside chat and they said not gonna happen.. well an idea like it.

I also am against it because I like the whole ship vs ship not player vs player aspect of this.. This is the only FPS I like and the main reason I like it is because its team vs team not individuals vs individuals..

But while I am against it in normal lobbies, as a custom game toggle option, just for fun - I'd be for it.

Offline Indreams

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Re: Ability to KO crew members
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2015, 01:42:48 pm »
Yea, would be a mod I'd like to see. But definitely a little weird to the game as it is right now. Although, ammos like this might add a little spice to gunning.