Author Topic: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes  (Read 24951 times)

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2014, 05:42:37 pm »
The other, small, but annoying thing is, when you are suddenly thrown back to that bloody, matchmaking thing after the match. What if I wanted to end a sentence with person I was talking with during the match? HELL NO.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2014, 05:56:11 pm »
First of all: GurasOguras and KitKatKitty - those were great posts, I salute you.

Quote
Suggestion:
1) Keep the new leveling system implemented in 1.3.8 but create a match making system that puts higher levels with higher levels and lower level with lower levels. Keep the ability for us to see what matches our friends are in cause that is a good feature.
2) Put the levels back in from of the players names in lobby...that was silly. We can still see every ones levels in their profile and in chat. All it did was make players take 1 extra step to see if it would be a "Pup stomp" or not. If you go with my recommendation in #1, your claim of Veteran players leaving lobbies will actually stop.
3) Make the timed lobbies a preference that can be chosen. Similar to how swap lobbies was. This way the players that want to jump in a game and start quickly can CHOOSE "timed lobbies" but the players that maybe having a really fun time with friends or clan practice or clan vs clan matches or any other reason why people may want to stay in lobby longer can so choose.

That's a start. Everything will work better than glicko2 and as I said the level is good enough indicator of player skill.

About the screenshots - send them all. Muse folks don't mind reading huge amount of e-mails ;)


Offline redria

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2014, 06:13:03 pm »
I'm confused by the disparity between people saying Glicko2 doesn't work, and Muse saying matches are more balanced than ever except when people crew form or leave the lobby before the match starts.

Personally, I played a few matches with one friend and was placed in matches that looked pretty unbalanced by levels. In fact, players on both teams commented on my level. I apologized in advance expecting it to be stompy.

And then it wasn't.

The game ended up being 5-4. I won, but only barely. I was in a 2v1 situation when it ended and finished off the last kill before the other ship could really bring its weapons to bear.

That's with carro-flamer pyra vs a junker and mobula with <lvl15 crews.

Only one example, I know. But it was exciting. And had I not known the levels of the other team, the whole match would have been much more tense instead of just the ending. As it was I expected to win so it wasn't until the end when it felt suddenly very close that the game got exciting.

For the time being when I play I will be playing (and recommend playing) with some rules:
Contain crew form to 1 ship max.
Don't leave a lobby you are matchmade in to.
Don't look at levels on the other team.
Don't rematch.
Don't swap slots or teams through any means.

See how it plays and feels. You should lose more. In a balanced setting a 50% win rate should be the norm, which would be a radical change for most of us. I think that is what is going to hit veterans the hardest. It is frustrating to lose, and we aren't used to it.

Offline sparklerfish

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2014, 06:20:57 pm »
I think the illusion of balance is as important as actual balance. The worst case scenario is when half a team rage quits after their first unsuccessful engagement. When a novice sees ranks in the high 30's they are already intimated, and it just takes that little push of a crushing 1st engagement to convince them they stand no chance. We on the forums are not a representative sampling of the player base. We know levels do not impart any special abilities and that GOI is not a pay to win system. However players coming from outside our community may not be convinced. Seeing big numbers is the first part of a "This game is rigged against me" thought process that causes them to quit.

I dunno, I personally would feel better being a new player and getting stomped in a game in which I could easily see that the other team comprised players with much higher levels than me.  Then I would think, "Well, they just have more experience, and I'll get there."  If, on the other hand, I'm stomped but there's no indication of level, I might think, "Well, I just suck at this game, I guess I'll go play something else."  If you're going to lose, I don't see how having levels hidden would soften the blow at all.

Offline Neithrantulre

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2014, 06:29:06 pm »
Wow, 5 pages of replies. This looks like the most controversial update this game has seen.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2014, 06:30:54 pm »
Perhaps having a disclaimer in the tutorial saying that levels are purely cosmetic would help?

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2014, 06:31:28 pm »
I think part of why matches are more balanced than ever is the match making system is nerfing the most powerful mechanics of the game: cooperation and teamwork. If there are 4 players  that work well as a team and are randomly distributed amongst 6 ships in a lobby odds are that one of those ships would contain at least two of those players who would ultimately crush the rest of the ships. If match making identifies the 4 OP players and sticks them on different ships the game will be more even since everyone will be playing at the same crap level.

@sparklerfish
It is not about softening the blow of defeat, but tricking people into thinking they have a chance even if they don't.

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2014, 06:31:56 pm »
Redria, take count on fact, that Muse must had taken away any swapping options for it to remain like that. And honestly, many peoples are switching places, and there are many reasons for that.

I understand what you mean, but on the other hand - this system is absolutely, let's say, fool-sensitive ( to be more precise - I mean the opposite of foolproof ) , and therefore it's bad.

By the way - are seriously want us to invite 100 friends so we can have something like old match lists? That's something completely opposite to community, and looks rather like scheiss-book-pseudo-social-media-stuff...

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2014, 06:38:23 pm »
Biggest problem with matchmaking?

You don't have enough people playing your game for it to make balanced lobbies.

What you get is people who know how to play match-made and distributed between people who don't know how to play, and lots of frustration for everyone.

Is it even between red and blue? yes.
Is it balanced inter-team? No.

Is playing on a ship with a large novice divide fun? 
??
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 06:41:42 pm by GeoRmr »

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2014, 06:42:41 pm »
Matchmaking did not address any of the issues anyone had with the game. The few things it was supposed to solve are still around and the rest was made worse. This was a waste if time and i feel like it was a mistake to put the game on sale at this point

Offline Keyvias

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2014, 06:44:40 pm »
Geo, most often, do you use matchmaking or friend join to find games?

On friends list:
Actually it was a built in work around for some of our vet players who already had over 1000 friends.  Required no work on their part and gave them pretty much the match list they had before, cutting out any novice games or games without people they knew/liked.

Red's rules are even more aggressive, but steps like that are big pushes towards balance over flexibility.

@Sale
The biggest complaints we had we on time and balance in most of our reviews and we know this works better than the old system and will work even better with more people especially many around the same level.
As I said before, if we want to focus balance, let's come to a consensus and we'll get started making balance the priority.

Offline Neithrantulre

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2014, 06:47:12 pm »
Matchmaking would work just fine if we got real fixes to real problems and real new content so that the community can grow. It needs a large number of players for it to work. Advertising with steam sales can get warm bodies in the short term, but they inevitably will leave, because they buy it to realize that the game was not even worth the severely discounted rate that they payed. The last time we got fun new toys was closer to the initial release in 2012 than current day.

This system seems to be built on the assumption that GoIO is a huge community with enough pull to keep large numbers of players even through heavy handed and misguided updates. Not every experienced player wants to have to teach new players constantly.

This hotfix made most of my clan uninstall.

Offline D.lo-res

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2014, 06:59:02 pm »
It's like they were told matchmaking hasn't really been helping create balanced matches and then rather than working on that they made it slightly more difficult to see how unbalanced a match is.

Also, invisible ships!

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2014, 07:00:13 pm »
I own this game for a month or something, and to be honest - there are only 3 reasons I haven't uninstalled it yet.

1. The gameplay is really good and this is the only multiplayer oriented game about which I actually CAN say it's really good.
2. God dammit, my good friend Disaster and I are both introverts, I'm rather more expressive, but for christ's sake, this is propably only place where we can more or less meet each other and have fun together, yet not bothering ourselves
3. ...I paid 15 bloody euros for this one, and I am a poor, young, unemployed polish student. I respect my money, especially when I spend them.


Edit: Oh, you noticed that too? I thought it was one of my delusions...

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2014, 07:01:09 pm »
It's like they were told matchmaking hasn't really been helping create balanced matches and then rather than working on that they made it slightly more difficult to see how unbalanced a match is.

Also, invisible ships!
Yeah, you can see all the levels by pressing tab once the match starts or just clicking a bit in the lobby. That 'fix' really is a joke.