Junker viability and builds

[Baron Saturday]

So i fly a Junker.  Always have, slways will.  The new flamer changes have changed the game however.  Where i had my gat gunner take greased rounds before, i have them taking incendiary and where i had a merc up front i take a flamer.  My entire Paritan rumble strst went from front cara, gat/flak broadside, to flamer front cara/flamer broadside.  When engagements are made with flamer gst/flak build i actually aim for trifecta.  Fire damage has gotten totally out of hand and i'm not sure how it needs to be changed, but fire is meta and everything else is support...  I don't even want to discuss the chem spray right now either.  5 seconds of hoping against hope and i almost feel like the ext is better.

[Imagine]

Incendiary is gatling guns were actually pretty common even before fire changes.

And, sorry but... gat/flak is not an optimal build.

[Baron Saturday]

Not optimal how?  We regularly go 5-0 with it.  Flaks not only assist gats in armor damage, but are great for hull damageas well.  I can show you how effective it is tontight if you'd like.

[Replaceable]

Chem spray is the best provided the engineers chem before it's needed. If you are being flamed it is too late. In which case fire extinguisher is better.
But during prolonged exposure to fire fire extinguisher cannot cope. As this fire stacks will come back. So Basically if engineers forget to chem and you are under prolonged fire. Extinguish and then chem.

Mercury up front on a Junker is pretty cool. Makes the ship super tiny to hit whilst you have a gun pointed at them.

My favourite Junker builds are as follows though:
Front Artemis, Left side double hades, right side, carronade gattling. 
Front Artemis, Bottom deck dual mine, top left Gatling, top right carronade.
Front Banshee, right carronade flamer, left side dual mine

But maaan Junker is such a versatile ship. You can design it to have each side for different jobs. It's awesome.
It's like having 2 pyramidions stuck to each side.
Without the nose.
Or the pyramidion.

That's what i think anyways.

Not optimal how?  We regularly go 5-0 with it.  Flaks not only assist gats in armor damage, but are great for hull damageas well.  I can show you how effective it is tontight if you'd like.

It isn't optimal as the flak has an arming time. Which means that the gat is often out of range. Mortar is a better pairing.
Provided you want to be a Metamidion Scrub.

[Imagine]

Not optimal how?  We regularly go 5-0 with it.  Flaks not only assist gats in armor damage, but are great for hull damageas well.  I can show you how effective it is tontight if you'd like.

Oh boy, your challenge is accepted with much anticipation.

You may go 5-0 is novice or pub matches, but that build will be ripped to shreds by anyone who know what they're doing. The arming time on a flak makes it a sub-optimal pairing with the range of a gat. Yes, a flak does amazing once armor is down, but does very little while it's up. Pair the flak with a hades for mid to long range shots, pair the gat with mortars for short range.

[Alistair MacBain]

Why no gat flak?
Gat 450m range, even less when using incendiary.
Flak 150m arming range. Can be decreased to maybe 120 ...
You will get shred to pieces by any crew that has experience.

Your flamer will run into chem sprays and your guns will either be out of range (gat) or inside arming (flak).
Also wouldnt suggest using incendiary. Its a nice third ammo for a gat maybe if you doesnt have anything else to take but usually id say its crap.
There is no reason for it on a gat if youre running a standard gat mortar cause greased will do the hullshred faster and saver and thats all purpose of the gat.
In a disable setup your better suited with heavy for the gat to be able to effectivly snipe components.
There is simply no reason for incendiary atm. Maybe in a light arm deacrease for mines bout outside i wouldnt suggest it for anything.

And like replacable said ...
A junkers strenght is versatility. You have either a longrange and closerange side or you have a disable and a killside.
Mirrored junkers arent worth it. Theres simply no reason to do that.
And like every ship you have to rely on allies at a certain lvl. A junker has a big juicy balloon as target. If you dont know and dont trust your ally in those situations your most likely screwed. Atleast if the enemy knows what he is doing.

[Sprayer]

Truth be told I see Junkers much rarer than I saw them half a year ago.

[Baron Saturday]

Then why is the pyra meta gat/flak?  It's the exact same principle exactly.  I see pyras run gat flak every day and it's very effective.  It's been so for us, but then again i have a pro level gamer in my main crew.  We'll see how it goes.

[Dementio]

Then why is the pyra meta gat/flak?

It isn't. It is gat/mortar. A pyra that uses the flak usually has it coupled with a hades to get the full range advantage of the light flak, since flak is better than mortar at range. When you use a gatling, you might as well bring a mortar since you will be rather close to the enemy and you won't have to worry about arming time either if the enemy can manage to get close. Enemies usually will get close to you if you are a junker, since junkers cannot move sideways to back up while shooting whereas ships like pyramidion and goldfish can. What you could do however is dodge by turning and moving past them while keeping side guns in arc, and when you are this you will be so close that mortar is better than flak.

Of course you can continue using this combination, but you have a much more restricted range game which does make it a bit harder to play with.

[Baron Saturday]

Alright.  I'm gonna go gat mortar mirrored.  I'm still curious as to why mirrored is bad.  Two kill sides are good especiallywhen you have a sopport squid making a firey mess of things.

I'm still in complete disagreement with the incendiary rounds for gat however.  I think it depends on how it's used and what it's coupled with.  There's a reason it's in the game and we're seeing good things using it.  So until that changes our gat gunner is using them.  It's all situational though, and ammo does change between clips quite often.

Edit:  And for chem spray, i understand what it's used for.  I'm not saying don't take it.  What I'm saying is it seems betterto have a engi with chem spray OR ext, and an engi with the other.

[GeoRmr]

Decent crew keep up chem spray cycles making the incendiary effect useless leaving you with reduced dps and range, the advantage of the Junker is that it has enough gun slots to fight at different ranges symmetrical builds only limit you.

[GeoRmr]

Ps,

meta Junker build is Hades lower art top one side, art front for trifecta, mortar top  Gatling bottom on the other side.

[HamsterIV]

If you opponents are being stupid it is not that hard to 5-0 even with sub optimal builds. Gat/flack used to be the meta before muse added arming times to the flack. In fact some of still say "gat/flack" and "flack timings" even though we mean mortar.

The Junker is a fine ship, and is very versatile. I still run a tripple artemis left/fron for long range and a gat/morter right for close as my default setup. It is a very strong counter to squids due to its tiny blind side. It can hold its own in sniper matches with mass Artemis spam and a very hard to hit hull. It is slightly out matched due to the lack of perma hull against a brawler pyramiddion, but superior crew or flying can still carry the day. It is maneuverable enough that it can get the upper hand on a galleon in tight quarters.

The main weakness is the balloon a well piloted blenderfish can lock a junker down or keep it out of the fight. If you face a luberjack gunner knows what they are doing, the junker becomes easy meat.

I would not limit myself to one ship. Understanding how the other ships fly will help you compliment your ally and exploit your enemies' weaknesses.

[GeoRmr]

A Gatling mortar side of a Junker has advantage over a metamidion, the Junkers higher armour start means the pyra should break and die first (in theory, not counting for crew error)

[Baron Saturday]

Well, this is true.  While i main a junker i also fly a pyra and a spire.  Pyra runs a similar build for a different reason and i use a spire for long range support.  And it looks cool and thats enough reason to get me into a spire anyway.  I wanted to main a spire, but it's a glsss cannon and it specializes and i want to brawl and do range, but it depends on the map.  I have 3 builds.  Flamer front, gat/(now)mortar flamer/cara or flamer front mirrored gst/mortar or flamer front mirrored cara/flamer.  I prefer double kill sides because i like running with popper/flamer squid or some other support ship.