Heavy duty weaponry

[Echoez]

So, I don't even remember how long ago was the Hades introduced and to be quite honest, I haven't been playing much myself other than the Sky League lately, so please judge me not.

I remember the introduction of the hades as something pretty cool, the meta shifted, new and interesting loadouts popped out and overall, there was something fresh to play with. I also remember my disapointment that said weapon wasn't a heavy one.

How long has it been since a new Heavy gun was introduced? What was the last one? Lumberjack? That was before I even started playing if I remember correctly. I've been away for like what, over 6 months, I come back for SKy League, absolutely nothing has changed and I do remember asking Muse specificaly in one of their streams last summer when can we at least expect a new heavy gun, I got an answer of like 3-4 months. I've been gone for half a year and there's still nothing

So, I'm gonna ask again in a way, when can we finally expect a new heavy gun? What are your guys' thoughts on it and what would you expect to see?


Personaly I'm sad there's no flame artillery yet in the form of a mid range gasoline flamer or anti air auto-cannons, I want my Pom-Poms Muse, when am I getting them? :3

(PS: if a mod could move this to general discussion please cause I just noticed I put it in the wrong forum section.. work's internet is kinda slow, sorry!)

[Crafeksterty]

A new heavy gun will drastically change the 3 ships that hold heavy guns.
So yeah, im so hyped for any new heavy guns.

I believe the Hwacha is the newest addition of heavy guns, but that was before i started playing.



For the most part, i am expecting something radically different in terms of usage.
Like, is it a more supportish like weapon, or is it a status effect type weapon. etc etc.

But the most probable expectation i think is an impact damage heavy gun. A heavy gun that fires then hits a ship, and makes that ship move like it got rammed.
Uh, like how mines hit a ship. Most threads or posts talked about some kind of a "Cannon"  1 shot, close to long range projectile that hits a ship with massive impact moving the target ship.

[Alistair MacBain]

As echo said the newest heavy gun is the lumberjack. Hwacha, Hflak and Hcarro are there for longer.

Dont know what it will be but yes i will be excited once it comes in again.

But to say that the meta doesnt change is wrong.
Yes there are standards that stay for a very long time like the gat mortar but there are also new things.
The team of gat/mortar+hades/flak we had at the start of HC wasnt that much used before. A few teams did but in the first 2 weeks of HC they were the goto build for most teams.
Carronade+artemis got a recent hype.
Or to go further into the past ... We had the Artemis which was used extremely often. Those are builds you still see from time to time.
For a long time there were barely any goldfishs in competetive and now we have several ...
The lumberfish was pretty much a nogo before HC. Then Muse started it again and we see it showing up every now and then again.
Galleon are gettin reintroduced aswell.
First weeks of HC there were no or barely any Galleons.
Now we see them in some games.

Just a few examples that show how things change. There dont need to be a drastic balance change or a new gun to change the meta and builds.
All it needs is a team willing to do sth new and if it works out how they wanted you will most likely see it every now and then.

[Echoez]

Just a few examples that show how things change. There dont need to be a drastic balance change or a new gun to change the meta and builds.
All it needs is a team willing to do sth new and if it works out how they wanted you will most likely see it every now and then.

Sure, I agree, but that doesn't make the already 4 used weapons any less stale and Galleon builds are still pretty much Sniper/Brawl sides if you don't count Overwatch's ridiculous shenanigans in Flotsam, Goldfishes still only use 2 of the 4 available guns and Spire is.. I don't wanna talk about the Spire until it can fly sideways

By fresh I mean I want something new, a slight meta shift will not replace my thirst for a new shiny toy to equip on my Goldie or Galleon. Unlike ships like the Junker, Mobula and the Pyra that can play around with a lot of guns, Fishes and Galleys are VERY restricted with their heavy gun loadouts and lets be honest, there might as well only be 3 Heavy guns atm cause I don't count the Heavy Flak as a 'weapon' it's just a finisher, not a real weapon, it's only good at ONE thing, which I find is very lacking for a heavy gun design in this game, considering all other heavy guns are multi-purpose.

[Dutch Vanya]

Just a few examples that show how things change. There dont need to be a drastic balance change or a new gun to change the meta and builds.
All it needs is a team willing to do sth new and if it works out how they wanted you will most likely see it every now and then.

Sure, I agree, but that doesn't make the already 4 used weapons any less stale and Galleon builds are still pretty much Sniper/Brawl sides if you don't count Overwatch's ridiculous shenanigans in Flotsam, Goldfishes still only use 2 of the 4 available guns and Spire is.. I don't wanna talk about the Spire until it can fly sideways

By fresh I mean I want something new, a slight meta shift will not replace my thirst for a new shiny toy to equip on my Goldie or Galleon. Unlike ships like the Junker, Mobula and the Pyra that can play around with a lot of guns, Fishes and Galleys are VERY restricted with their heavy gun loadouts and lets be honest, there might as well only be 3 Heavy guns atm cause I don't count the Heavy Flak as a 'weapon' it's just a finisher, not a real weapon, it's only good at ONE thing, which I find is very lacking for a heavy gun design in this game, considering all other heavy guns are multi-purpose.

Shows you've been away. The Lumberfish is all the rage now, i think since muse beat the ducks with it in the haephestus challenge. There are plenty of viable galleon builds and the spire may not be quite up to par for competitive  though i believe it is) But in any case it's a force to be reckoned with.

[Echoez]

Shows you've been away. The Lumberfish is all the rage now, i think since muse beat the ducks with it in the haephestus challenge. There are plenty of viable galleon builds and the spire may not be quite up to par for competitive  though i believe it is) But in any case it's a force to be reckoned with.

I've been here for the Spire changes, it's still a ship that can't hold its own against even a Squid and that makes it incredibly bad in my opinion, "Operation Focus Spire" is still a running joke (and funnily enough still works) since the ship is still horrible at taking any sort of hit and live to tell the tale.

Lumberfish has always been as effective as the gunner on it and that goes for any ship with an LJ, it's still inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon and suffers from the same weakness to easy disables while not retaining any killing power by itself to effectively kill a ship fast. I've flown it numerous times and I don't see why not even take a Spire instead of it, at least you can fire more guns while still being able to backpedal. Though it could have some uses against slower ships, but I don't see how it will do any better than a Spire considering the enemy gunners can easily disable your gun with an Artemis on both occassions.

I'll take a look at that replay if you can provide it via PM tho as I am interested. Let's keep this on topic though, this is not about currently viable guns on ships, it's about just getting more of them, more shinies is always good.

[Dutch Vanya]

Shows you've been away. The Lumberfish is all the rage now, i think since muse beat the ducks with it in the haephestus challenge. There are plenty of viable galleon builds and the spire may not be quite up to par for competitive  though i believe it is) But in any case it's a force to be reckoned with.

I've been here for the Spire changes, it's still a ship that can't hold its own against even a Squid and that makes it incredibly bad in my opinion, "Operation Focus Spire" is still a running joke (and funnily enough still works) since the ship is still horrible at taking any sort of hit and live to tell the tale.

Lumberfish has always been as effective as the gunner on it and that goes for any ship with an LJ, it's still inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon and suffers from the same weakness to easy disables while not retaining any killing power by itself to effectively kill a ship fast. I've flown it numerous times and I don't see why not even take a Spire instead of it, at least you can fire more guns while still being able to backpedal. Though it could have some uses against slower ships, but I don't see how it will do any better than a Spire considering the enemy gunners can easily disable your gun with an Artemis on both occassions.

I'll take a look at that replay if you can provide it via PM tho as I am interested. Let's keep this on topic though, this is not about currently viable guns on ships, it's about just getting more of them, more shinies is always good.

None of these statements are definitive. Theory never holds up 100%, but especially in this game. You were doing the same thing in the pyramidion thread. Acting like you know exactly how every single situation in this game plays out.

But aside from that, why can't a spire hold its own against a squid? Especially with the hwacha or hellhound, it is very doable.

[pandatopia]

Well, the main weapon types we are missing for heavy weapon types are...

Mid/long range armor melt - frankly no heavy weapon is a good armor melter, though obviously close range carro spam will demolish anything and a full hwacha burst will do heavy armor damage...but they aren't optimized for it. There is no equivalent for hades or gatling.

Flamer type - I would vote against this personally, there doesn't seem to be a point.

Mines - This I would like to see. Giant floating death blocks, or even something so simple as a dual barreled mine launcher that can hold 8-10 mines out in space at one time. Mine galleon go!

Heavy rocket launcher - I mean artemis type gun. However, I think hwacha already covers this pretty well.

Harpoon - I think a heavy harpoon launcher should instantly kill squids.

Extreme long range sniping weapon - heavy mercury. I don't know how this could be balanced however, as the merc already 2 shots some hull armors. Also loch on this would be deadly.

[Echoez]

None of these statements are definitive. Theory never holds up 100%, but especially in this game. You were doing the same thing in the pyramidion thread. Acting like you know exactly how every single situation in this game plays out.

But aside from that, why can't a spire hold it's own against a squid? Especially with the hwacha or hellhound, it is very doable.

I never said that, I said "why not", don't put words in my mouth and don't bring other threads into this, I'm always speaking my opinion like everyone does everytime they post something, I thought that was common sense. Which means my opinion is not a solid fact and neither is anyone else's.

Also please tell me what exatly I said doesn't stand true for the most part? The Lumberjack is a gunner's weapon, on a Goldfish, from long range, you can only fire one gun, so you are as effective as your gunner, plain and simple.

In terms of finishing and pure damage, it is inferior to an LJ/Flak Galleon, it's a simple matter of 2 guns versus only one. The Galleon is tankier and can starfe, allowing it to snipe for prolonged times.

The Spire can indeed backpedal like the Goldfish and fire more guns at the target.

The Goldfish's, Spire's AND Galleon's guns are all easily disabled as a sniper, cause in order to fire the LJ, you need to give your gunner a steady ship, or greatly risk messing up their shots.

You're telling me those statements aren't definite, sure, agreed, at least bother to explain why (and if you decided to do so, do it in a PM, not here), since as I said, I've been away for some time, so maybe things have changed? You come off as realy condecending in your comment and I don't realy like it.

As for the Spire not holding up against a Squid, the Squid can easily break your gun arcs cause your ship is so tall, it can stay above and pound your balloon, you can't escape either cause the Spire is too slow for that, one mistake and you are dead.

Now please stop derailing, I stated it before as well, this is a thread about NEW heavy guns and not a discussion about what works or not, I just stated my OPINIONS on the original post, that's all they are and will remain.

[Echoez]

Mid/long range armor melt - frankly no heavy weapon is a good armor melter, though obviously close range carro spam will demolish anything and a full hwacha burst will do heavy armor damage...but they aren't optimized for it. There is no equivalent for hades or gatling.

Could be autocannons that shoot projectiles, not hitscan, so it's actually more of a challenge to fire them.

Flamer type - I would vote against this personally, there doesn't seem to be a point.

A gasoline flamer would work like hellfire artillery, would be a nice addition I believe, or it could come in the form of an incindiery grenade launcher?

Mines - This I would like to see. Giant floating death blocks, or even something so simple as a dual barreled mine launcher that can hold 8-10 mines out in space at one time. Mine galleon go!

even bigger mines?

Heavy rocket launcher - I mean artemis type gun. However, I think hwacha already covers this pretty well.

I find the Hwacha to be pretty different, since it's a burst type weapon with a massive reload, though I guess more rocket launchers would be reduntant, I'd like to see missiles tho

Extreme long range sniping weapon - heavy mercury. I don't know how this could be balanced however, as the merc already 2 shots some hull armors. Also loch on this would be deadly.

Probably OP as you mentioned, also 1 shot magazines with Loch all day. Though I have to admit a giant railgun would be cool.

[GeoRmr]

I want muse to add one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KsXYK_CNoQ

and make it do impact damage

[Echoez]

I want muse to add one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KsXYK_CNoQ

and make it do impact damage

Pom Poms! <3

[Dutch Vanya]

I definitely think something with impact damage would be the most interesting addition.

[pandatopia]

I actually don't even know what impact damage is.

Is it supposed to push ships (like mine launcher?).

That would be sweet, like an air gun that shoves them out of arc =D

[Dutch Vanya]

I actually don't even know what impact damage is.

Is it supposed to push ships (like mine launcher?).

That would be sweet, like an air gun that shoves them out of arc =D

Exactly. The whole reason i think mines are so much fun is because you know there's a real person somewhere trying to control that ship you are knocking around.
(Yes, derailing threads is my specialty.)