Author Topic: Control the lobbies  (Read 5047 times)

Offline Safewood

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2014, 11:43:46 pm »
Whether it's possible or not is completely irrelevant. Whether I disagree with the build or not is also completely irrelevant. You're absolutely missing the point.

Edit: Read my post once more. Majority is the key word here.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 11:46:28 pm by Safewood »

Offline GreyTea

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2014, 03:12:59 am »
Whether it's possible or not is completely irrelevant. Whether I disagree with the build or not is also completely irrelevant. You're absolutely missing the point.

Edit: Read my post once more. Majority is the key word here.

You're a level 9 pilot one achievment away from level 10, it is a harpoon achievement, Your favorite ship is the pyra, So you put harpoon mortar on the front of your pyra, 3 players from a clan join and tear your build to pieces, saying its silly doesn't make sense, we want you to fly gat mortar or we are going to kick you for trolling.

The situation above could very well happen, now 2 things you would have to change because of majority* by what you are saying and because if you do not they will kick you because they do not care about achievments only winning maybe one of them is wanted. does that sound fun? Not only can you now not get your achievement you are running somthing you do not want to fly, if you protest you get greeted with well find another lobby, even though you made this one.

The majority or not fly what build you want to fly There is times where it is just trolling like all flare mobula for instance, even then though if you are with a few friends on the ship and the other captain complains do you change ship?

I have been thinking alot lately about the ethics and unwritten rules of the game and how people interpret trolling/just having some fun and taking the game lightly. there is a fine line. I get a lot of reports for very simple things.

''He is a noob'' look at his level he has been playing about 30 minutes level 1-1-1,   

''He would not get off the gun'' and they have only played matches as gunner, or ''the shot my gun as engineer''

Like goldenglade said Mods are available to handle any trolls you might accounter and they are experinced enough to differentiate between people who are new/having fun/trolling,

CA's are in the game alot to discourage trolling and help new players understand the core mechanics of the game and any problems players might be having. Kicking them is not the answer i feel,

Only the other day i was on desert scrap and i took and all mine junker, and my crew started calling me a troll and complaining because i don't play to win ect the other captain took a spire i think and complained the whole lobby time, But i just reassured them it will be fine to trust me, or there is other lobbies to join feel free ill ready up when you want so i don't run Ai.

Obviously like alot of people would of relised Munker on scrap is Op and we won 600-0 my crew could not stop laughing and having a good time firing the mines we died twice i think and no one was angry, my co captain was raging so hard because he kept dying and i told him not to worry its just a game and we had basically won.

What can be interpreted as trolling might have a good underlying reason. Player is not communicating do they speak english? do they have voice chat on? are they chilling out listening to music?

Somtimes best thing you can do in a lobby to control them is to take a step back wait a few minutes then seek help, Wether it be an afk player who has just went downstairs for a drink, or a player who does not speak/understand much english but loves the game, these people could be reported/kicked for reasons that do not require it.

So if you do encounter a troll please seek help from a CA or Mod even one of the devs if we are on. we have the tools to help but make sure they are trolling first :), Also if there is somthing you think could help the situation please feel free to email feedback@musegames.com.

Kind Regards and Safe Skies

Grey T

Offline Hillerton [PC]

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2014, 06:27:40 am »
So let me off rail this topic completely, but what if instead of a kick function they make it clearer who to talk to, and easier to find the CA button? (like a huge button placed somewhere where it is not camouflaged as a part of the schedule thingy) I know it took me for ever before I meet my first CA and learned what they where when I first started, so maybe that is the actual problem? If you don't know who to turn to and have trouble in a lobby then a kick function will seem nice. When you know that the CAs are there then you can do something, and that changes things around.

Quote
I've actually never seen real trolls, and never seen a high(er) lvl player to discriminate or humiliate the low lvl player.

Lets be honest here I would accredit this almost entirely to the fact that their is no kick function (the nature of the game helps as well but patients drys up fast after a few games with bad randoms). The fact is that high lvl players can't discriminate but instead have to teach. And I'm sure to somewhat degree it would still be done but I do believe more often than not the time-span you would have to adjust equipment and get an idea of what should be done in the lobby would be much, much smaller than it is now (as in one line in crew chat small). Not to mention the fact that more often than not high lvl players have one or more friend in the lobby, and then kicking the newer/random player and getting your friend in that slot will be really tempting, on all lvls I would believe.

Offline Milevan Faent

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2014, 04:19:26 pm »
So let me off rail this topic completely, but what if instead of a kick function they make it clearer who to talk to, and easier to find the CA button? (like a huge button placed somewhere where it is not camouflaged as a part of the schedule thingy) I know it took me for ever before I meet my first CA and learned what they where when I first started, so maybe that is the actual problem? If you don't know who to turn to and have trouble in a lobby then a kick function will seem nice. When you know that the CAs are there then you can do something, and that changes things around.

Quote
I've actually never seen real trolls, and never seen a high(er) lvl player to discriminate or humiliate the low lvl player.

Lets be honest here I would accredit this almost entirely to the fact that their is no kick function (the nature of the game helps as well but patients drys up fast after a few games with bad randoms). The fact is that high lvl players can't discriminate but instead have to teach. And I'm sure to somewhat degree it would still be done but I do believe more often than not the time-span you would have to adjust equipment and get an idea of what should be done in the lobby would be much, much smaller than it is now (as in one line in crew chat small). Not to mention the fact that more often than not high lvl players have one or more friend in the lobby, and then kicking the newer/random player and getting your friend in that slot will be really tempting, on all lvls I would believe.

I really support making the CA button easier to find.... especially as I don't even know where it is now.

Offline Safewood

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2014, 05:36:48 pm »
@ Grey T:
Now that it was elaborated so well, I can definitely see your point of view. I didn't realize players would be that strict about an undefined / undeveloped meta, however, in a defined / developed meta like in CS / LoL / NS2, players definitely are very strict about how others have to follow the meta to the T. Though I'm still inclined for a veto than moderators.

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2014, 12:35:16 pm »
@ Grey T:
Now that it was elaborated so well, I can definitely see your point of view. I didn't realize players would be that strict about an undefined / undeveloped meta, however, in a defined / developed meta like in CS / LoL / NS2, players definitely are very strict about how others have to follow the meta to the T. Though I'm still inclined for a veto than moderators.

This game has a competitive scene, and the different meta strategies are pretty obvious and developed imho.

Offline Safewood

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2014, 01:26:38 pm »
@ GeoRmr:
Where is this competitive scene exactly? I've checked ESL, ESEA and IRC (QuakeNet and GameSurge). Does it have its own gather system like ENSL?

Offline Imagine

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2014, 01:39:22 pm »
@ GeoRmr:
Where is this competitive scene exactly? I've checked ESL, ESEA and IRC (QuakeNet and GameSurge). Does it have its own gather system like ENSL?
Nothing like that. There's no organization that runs it, it's all community driven https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/board,51.0.html is probably the best info you'll get.

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2014, 01:42:16 pm »
Pretty much every competetive event is organized through the community events section in the forums here.
Not much else to say.

Hephaestus Challenge is the current main event organized in a league system followed by two elimination brackets.
THe other competetive event we currently have is the Sunday Community Skirmish.
An open Single elimination bo3 tournament.

Offline Safewood

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2014, 01:55:36 pm »
@ Imagine & Alistair MacBain:
Ah, that's pretty cool. I'll try to ask my friends if we can't try this some time, though we would have to play as subs, since we don't have 8 players. Thanks for the info.

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2014, 01:57:51 pm »
You can also join a clan. Or just team up with others. Just have to look what each tournament needs beforehand.
Hephaestus for example cant be entered atm. Would need to wait for next season. But SCS is a nice and quick start in competetive aswell ^^.

Offline Safewood

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2014, 02:16:28 pm »
@ Alistair MacBain:
We'll definitely ask for tryouts, but we would need subs for our own crew, too, because not everyone can play when needed. SCS looks fun to try out as well. Again, thanks for showing me this; I really want to try this game out in a competitive setting, since it's really hard to find someone who would beat our asses red and blue. I'm sure this is the right place. :)

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2014, 02:23:13 pm »
Well for the start non novice lobbys would be a try aswell ;).
Cause your probably getting slaughtered in competetive. Nth gainst you but the average games played for competetive is at around 1k games played i guess. Atleast 500 + ^^.
But besides that theres always cakes iron fork of friday to join if your fast enough ^^.

Offline Safewood

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2014, 02:56:26 pm »
@ Alistair MacBain:
We play mostly non-novice games, against level 10+ crews, and there isn't really much of a challenge to find there. It's probably just scrambled crews we've been playing against, and I'm sure we would get our asses handed to us in a competitive setting however.

I've now watched some VODs from the HC tourney, and I can see that the builds and setups are very much alike ours, which I'm happy to see we've at least understood and progressed in the right direction.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Control the lobbies
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2014, 04:56:38 pm »
Grey, with all due respect, I've seen moderators sit by and do nothing while players and teams either troll or violate the rules. I've also known CAs who quit because they have no real power. They have to sit there, be nice, and have no recompense as players tear into them. If their powers are less than that of a regular player then there is something seriously wrong. Heck, mall cops have more power than they do if someone misbehaves. All CAs can do is put on a happy face, file a CA report, then walk away leaving the offender to continue their abuse.

What is the point of CAs/Mods if a kick is implemented? Simple, to handle situations which requires more than a simple kick. Kicks can only solve a problem for the moment but what if an offender takes it beyond that and either stalks or trolls people numerous times? That is when a CA steps in with a match ban, preventing them from returning to the same match. Or when a CA mod steps in and just bans them from the game.

The argument that they have no reason for existing if a kick is added is flawed. In fact for the last year kick ability is probably the #1 request in game that I've run across. CAs can't be everywhere, they can't police all the lobbies. Heck they aren't even getting paid to take the level of abuse they take from the community.

Muse needs to say enough is enough and add the feature already. At one time I agreed, it would be probably abused/etc. But after a year of putting up with these people...the price of that abuse has come at the price of losing a lot of good players who just want to enjoy the game, not be trolled.