Author Topic: Realism has had it's fun...  (Read 83892 times)

Offline Frogger

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2014, 01:21:33 am »
To address the OP, in general I agree with Gilder. One of the reasons I enjoy flying the junker is that it is one of the last ships that doesn't feel like a flying brick to me, despite its relatively slow speed. As others like Byron and Gilder have stated, moving forward I very much hope that Muse will view balance in terms of buffs (to speed and maneuverability, namely), instead of reducing the pre-existing abilities of ships, which most players generally seem to regard as being in a good state of balance.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2014, 02:12:12 am »
How do you balance the game so that every play style can be competitive? How do you balance the weapons and ships so that brawling and disabling is just as strong as sniping?

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2014, 02:17:35 am »
How do you balance the game so that every play style can be competitive? How do you balance the weapons and ships so that brawling and disabling is just as strong as sniping?
]

A lot of trial and error and a bit of luck. 

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2014, 04:05:12 pm »
Yeah i want to commend Muse for their balancing efforts, It cannot be easy to do with such a unique game.

Offline Queso

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2014, 04:52:35 pm »
It takes PAX East dinners and crazy ideas.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2014, 08:38:57 pm »
Do we need every ship weapon and play style to be balanced in competitive play? I would like to say yes but I don't It's high on Muse's list. The game is balanced for general play and I think that is good enough for them. Until the long awaited Adventure mode/co op is finished.

Offline -Mad Maverick-

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2014, 01:19:58 am »
the point of this post was to suggest how the game could be made more fun.   some of you have responded about ballance.  my guess is because you believe that ballance=more fun.   but you see that isnt the point gilder and I are trying to make.  there are many ways to ballance a game and making a game faster does not necessarily make it unbalanced or even more close range.   if the speed is taken into account it could simply make the piloting simply (wait for it) faster!   I propose that this added speed would make the game more (wait for it) fun! 

keep fighting the numbers but the lobby has the exact same wait times and number of people waiting now as it did months ago.  we keep bleeding players!  this game has so much potential to be so much more fun; I know because I played it when it was...
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 01:21:46 am by Cpt Janeway »

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2014, 05:50:51 am »
Thumbs up Janeway.

What makes vehicles in BF fun? There is a sense of power, of speed, of being able to crush little bugs trying to shoot you with rockets/missiles. People don't mind slow vehicles if they feel they can put some steak on it whenever some lowly peasant gets in front of their boomtubes.

Galleon, you need that sense of raw power. Of being the big dog with all the guns. Unfortunately, most of them have been crippled due to balancing concerns. I've seen more captains charging broadsides than ever before because there is just no reason to fear them that much. Newbies love taking these things but then they quickly hate them.

Goldfish, the blend of speed with power. A ship completely rendered barely viable to not viable at all because of the reductions to heavy weapons. It can't even use it's stronger light weapons effectively because they cannot effectively support the heavy with their firing arcs.

Spire, raw power ship that does suffer from the same problems the Galleon and Goldfish do except it can make up for it due to all the small gun mounts. Without those small gun mounts being turned more forwards, the Spire would still be totally non viable.

Mobula, the beached whale of the skies...yet viable because of all the little gun mounts. But still, notoriously poor at handling for how weak it is. This ship either needs a mobility buff or it needs a survivability buff. Bring it up to being a heavy warship and it would make sense for how slow it moves.

Junker, again, its slow and lumbering and looks like a tissue paper hull yet takes forever to cut through. Best arcs in the game. This is a ship that doesn't need work other than armor reduction. If it is a light warship, it shouldn't be soaking so much damage like a heavy. At the same time, it could move a bit faster to compensate for the lack of survivability. But simply put, its a weak light ship that should reflect that.

Pyra, the bloated lawn dart. Now we have the speed, but the turning is infuriating. This ship was nerfed to answer the cries of the community which complained about how OP it was. Well, good job people, you got what you wanted. But at the same time we've got teams that have left the game because they just can't stand it anymore. Its a weak vessel and instead of supplementing it, Muse nerfed it again with hull hp reduction and 20% weight reduction. Pyras are not ships to fear anymore, nor are they liked as much. They're slow, lumbering and completely at the mercy of their opponents being morons that don't see them as an easy kill.

Squid, the little engines that can't and the tissue paper hull of iron. What the heck? This ship needed speed, raw speed and maneuverability. It was able to get up to top speed quickly and able to reverse quickly to avoid ramming things. It lost it in exchange for...more hull HP. Yeah, that doesn't work when you have Junkers out turning it and ships outrunning it. It should be a challenge to fly and kill a squid, the highest risk for reward. I should be absolutely terrified of ramming with a squid or getting it in front of any arc, not charging straight in and giving love taps. SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FREAKEN HECK?! I came to dogfight and risk everything on one maneuver, not play bumper cars. I remember a time where I'd fall apart barely touching another ship!! I want those times back!!

Now the heavy ships we don't really need much faster but they could use slight improvements on their evasion capabilities. Give captains a reason to be excited to fly the lumbering slugs! Knowing that if someone zones them out, they have a means of combating it without risking too much. Hydro/Chute shouldn't be giving such diminishing returns that they do. We don't have to take them completely back to 1.1 but making them work again so pilots have ways of evading shots when closing range would go a long way.

Ships should not require a buff hammer to make them flyable. They should be fun to fly and give proper risk for rewards. Buff hammer should only be necessary to give a proper temporary buff that makes it more fun or allows them to beat out a tough enemy. Many of these ships show little to no improvement with buff hammer while others depend almost completely on it and even then they don't feel like they are really buffed.

When I look back at BF series, my most favorite game was the first Bad Company. Why? Because vehicles moved better and shots actually felt like they did something. I was known for taking light tanks against heavy and win consistently due to speed and driving skills but it was fun because your gun actually could hurt them decently. In BC2 and BF3, the vehicle speeds were nerfed and so was weapon power/reload speed. I found myself needing to bring engineers along just to keep the tank alive and ya know what really sucked...was being unable to kill a stationary tank because that tank had a whole crew out behind him with repair tools just negating all the damage I'd cause.

That isn't fun. When it becomes more viable to just sit still taking punishment while people repair...its just a game of turrets and its boring. The great advantage BF has is it has other vehicles which can bomb the crap out of a repair crew and break the cycle. We don't have that in GOIO. Which is where GOIO is. We've got a game of flying turrets, engineer captains, and teams which just can't change that because if they try, they get chopped before they even get close.

Offline -Mad Maverick-

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2014, 11:25:44 am »
same page dude... my only thing is I think you and I and all the people that no longer play the game after each and every steam sale have a different idea of fun than muse and the 150 people who play this game regularly...(number have been used hyperbolically)

Offline Echoez

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2014, 10:15:16 pm »
Just popping in to say I actually agree with Gilder for once, lol.

Also I've been away for a long time, still no new heavy guns? Like, you know, something for CLOSE range? :P

Offline -Mad Maverick-

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2014, 11:33:18 pm »
Just popping in to say I actually agree with Gilder for once, lol.

Also I've been away for a long time, still no new heavy guns? Like, you know, something for CLOSE range? :P

who  needs close range when we can just long range?!

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2014, 11:47:22 pm »
Yeah, the H Carronade is sooooo bad at close range.

Offline Imagine

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2014, 11:49:14 pm »
Yeah, the H Carronade is sooooo bad at close range.
So is the Hwacha, just literally the worst.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2014, 01:06:37 am »
Close range is still a option in competitive play. Many teams have become very passive with their long range setups giving brawling teams a lot of options on how to approach.

Offline Echoez

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2014, 09:22:25 am »
Yeah, the H Carronade is sooooo bad at close range.

I detect the sarcasm, but quite honestly, if a certain someone never touched them since 1.2, they would be at a much better place that was BALANCED if I may add. But no, they got buffs in places nobody asked for and then nerfed to an even worse state than they were in 1.2, with less range and longer reloads.

They are not bad, but to me it felt like shit when I had to put up with this.


So is the Hwacha, just literally the worst.

Again, the sarcasm is easily detected, but on a serious note, your 14 second realod rocked battery is not my definition of 'fun' for a close range build, which is probably the case with Janeway as well, I would ask you respect our opinion just like we respect yours without sleazy sarcasms.


Close range builds to me are all about the DPS, to keep the guns firing and over-stress the enemy, not firing a single rocket barrage and wait for a long ass reload, this is not fun for me as a pilot or my gunner, at least in my experience in the game and when I played with my teammates, the least favorite gun was the Hwacha for the most part, it's simply not as fun as the Carronades or the sniper guns. The Hwacha also heavily restricts your manuvering as you HAVE to keep the ship still in order for your gunner to get a good shot, unlike weapons like a Gatling or a Carronade that can keep up with the ship's pace.

Anyway, this is a thread discussing ships, so I will not further go into this, but do mind where you throw your sarcasm around, it doesn't help anyone.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 09:30:26 am by Echoez »