Author Topic: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?  (Read 8483 times)

Offline The Sky Wolf

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Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« on: February 28, 2014, 11:19:31 pm »
Guns of Icarus is pretty much reversed naval combat in the sky. Therefore anything that would've been used by the Navy for deep sea purposes should have an Airship-Air Force equivalent for high altitude purposes?

Airships = Warship, while a High Altitude Blimb = Submarine? Stealth Bombers are basically the Submarines of the sky.. So maybe in Adventure Mode there might be one reason or another to use large blimps loaded with millions of cubic tons of hydrogen for high altitude stealth missions.

What do you think?

Offline Chmielewski

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 03:25:50 am »
"Large", "stealth" and "sky" are not very match each other. Only when clouds are low, possibly - and still very slow, I think.
Thing is, the main thing about stealth  aircraft is that they're difficult to locate with radars. There's no such thing as radar (I'm quite sure of it) in GoI world, so "stealth" airship is  nonsense in general. Oh I think it´s something to discuss!

There would be large ships in Coop and Adventure mode though. Like, boss ships.

Offline Swizy

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 06:44:24 am »


this is a sound mirror. It was used during the first world war to detect german bomber zeppelin invading england. They can detect sounds of these vessels up to 25 miles away. it's quite possible to have a early warning system in goio.

but back on topic, high altitude blimps wouldn't be called submarine but rather surmarine. There certainly are different classes of airships. From top it'd be cool to see something like the goliath from castle in the sky:



highly armored and large guns but very little momentum and top speed. from there on everything down to the squid.

Offline Tropo

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 06:50:03 am »
millions of cubic tons of hydrogen for high altitude " Hydrogen not measure in cubic as it is a gas how ever i understand


actually in today's blimps and future blimps they can and do compress large storage vessel inside the balloons and they can release them at any time

was originally design so a air ship could land unload cargo and then take off

Offline The Sky Wolf

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 08:23:23 pm »
"Large", "stealth" and "sky" are not very match each other. Only when clouds are low, possibly - and still very slow, I think.
Thing is, the main thing about stealth  aircraft is that they're difficult to locate with radars. There's no such thing as radar (I'm quite sure of it) in GoI world, so "stealth" airship is  nonsense in general. Oh I think it´s something to discuss!

There would be large ships in Coop and Adventure mode though. Like, boss ships.

Large zeppelins to carry masses of bombs relatively quietly.. and High altitude is one of the methods for air force stealth because.. Do I have to explain that?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 08:25:08 pm by Olde Grim Jack »

Offline Chmielewski

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 06:02:46 am »
What I'm talking about (and not only me), that large blimps are easy to detect. Even the large airships  can't get higher 7000 m (taking as an example zeppelines of first world war). The Goi's ships can't get higher 3000 m, I'm sure of it.
The larger ship gets, the bigger it's engines are and the easier it becomes to detect (Swizy gave an exaple here). They are still should be pretty good as bombers, though.


This discussion made me wander with another question: what gas is used in balloons here in GoI? I doubt that it's hydrogen, because it's highly explosive. Any ideas?

Also, I just MUST leave this photo here, it's gorgeous.

Offline macmacnick

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 12:00:04 pm »
Helium.

Offline Piemanlives

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 05:13:08 pm »
Knowing that hydrogen is a tool, as Mac said it has to be helium, it's the standard gas that we use in modern airships so it's likely that is what the vessels of GoI use, unless they are fueled by unobtainium. 

Offline Swizy

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 05:33:34 pm »
It can't be any gas known to us. Otherwise no ship in goio would rise the slightest. it must be something even lighter then hydrogen, which is impossible but you know... airships.

Offline Tropo

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 06:07:46 pm »
"actually in today's blimps and future blimps they can and do compress large storage vessel inside the balloons and they can release them at any time"

hydrogen is used in the above practise

helium is heavryer then hydrogen thats why in guns of icarus you go up faster when you use hydrogen
hyrogen also compresses more then helium

helium is more dangerous then hydrogen

what a lot of people think of when that think of airships is old and also wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lxSuuE9QDs
or  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPq5Ma20OAk

but what you really should be thinking is the amazing practical advertise of air shipping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_d0P4cMcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GceGS-g8hbI

enjoy bros

Offline Thomas

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2014, 07:37:32 pm »
As far as I'm aware, hydrogen is actually the more dangerous; since helium doesn't combust.

When dealing with lift of this nature, you need to think in terms of density. Compressing a 'lighter than air' gas makes it more dense, and actually causes it to produce less lift. So assuming you have a container and fill it with helium or hydrogen, it's going to float a bit. If you keep filling it (and it retains the same volume/shape), it will float less and less, and eventually not float at all.

Submarines work in a similar manner. By making their volume more dense (usually letting in water to the tanks) they can sink under the water at a controlled rate. Pushing water out of those tanks reduces the density and lets the submarine start floating upward.

The newer 'airships' in those videos work just like a submarine, but take in and release air to rise and descend.



I think it'd be possible for high altitude airships, but they would take some effort. Realistically you'd need to keep your crew warm and have adequate oxygen and pressure, which means it would likely have to be closed in. The airships in the game currently are 'low' altitude airships.

But for gameplay.... I can't see much enjoyment flying high above the clouds free of obstacles and other ships.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2014, 08:10:25 pm »
Wouldn't need sound mirrors and such given the tech time period of GOIO and the old world.

If you look at the tech we had leading up to WWII, it wasn't as simplistic or steampunky as people think. Heck they were already making theories about Radar tech and some were even testing them. Wasn't till WWII till those things really saw the limelight but the prototypes and the early stages of development were there.

I only know cause I had to do a little research on some tech from that time period for the VN. Was surprised to see how far along some were.

Offline Cheesy Crackers

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 01:32:47 am »
"Large", "stealth" and "sky" are not very match each other. Only when clouds are low, possibly - and still very slow, I think.
Thing is, the main thing about stealth  aircraft is that they're difficult to locate with radars. There's no such thing as radar (I'm quite sure of it) in GoI world, so "stealth" airship is  nonsense in general. Oh I think it´s something to discuss!

There would be large ships in Coop and Adventure mode though. Like, boss ships.

I think there's some kinda of "hedge hop" (Hopefully got the name right) strategy which is aircraft flying very low to the ground to avoid radar.

Offline Chmielewski

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2014, 08:24:25 am »
"Large", "stealth" and "sky" are not very match each other. Only when clouds are low, possibly - and still very slow, I think.
Thing is, the main thing about stealth  aircraft is that they're difficult to locate with radars. There's no such thing as radar (I'm quite sure of it) in GoI world, so "stealth" airship is  nonsense in general. Oh I think it´s something to discuss!

There would be large ships in Coop and Adventure mode though. Like, boss ships.

I think there's some kinda of "hedge hop" (Hopefully got the name right) strategy which is aircraft flying very low to the ground to avoid radar.
Of course you´re right!
First, this is aircraft, second, this is radar, third, the line "fly very high" is missing here =)

About helium. Isn't it's extraction and usage is too comlicated for Goi world? What do you think of it?
I like the idea of helium though.

Offline The Sky Wolf

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Re: Airships = Warship, High Altitude Blimp = Submarine?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2014, 11:09:02 pm »
Hydrogen is lighter than helium and more prevalent on the planet, as well as easier to obtain; in the game they offer you the option of bringing canisters of hydrogen along to replace lost hydrogen or to hyper-inflate the balloon to gain extra altitude quickly. So yeah, hydrogen is whats used in GoI for the airships - be it extremely combustible and impractical or not. So quit arguing over whether helium and hydrogen would be used the stealth bomber because this is extremely basic historical knowledge.

"In early dirigibles, the lifting gas used was hydrogen, despite widespread concern due to its flammability." ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airship.

They didn't really stop using hydrogen until after the Hindenburg incident in May 6, 1937.