Author Topic: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.  (Read 1698 times)

Offline macmacnick

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 121
    • [Clan]
    • 16 
    • 35
    • 19 
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile: Macmacnick
Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« on: February 25, 2014, 12:31:29 am »
Hull buffing seems to take a very long time, no matter whether the armor in question is a Galleon's or a Squid's. The time is the same, no matter the Armor health, whereas the hull armor rebuild speed takes into account the health of the armor. Therefore, I would like to field the following question: Why does the buff hammer not take into account the amount of hull armor health when it is being buffed, so as to make it behave similarly to the Hull armor rebuild mechanic, which takes into account the hull armor health?


If it took into account the amount of hull armor health, as a hypothetical example, would take 5 hits with a buff hammer to buff due to the
≈ 250 hull armor (rounded up from 230), while the goldfish would take 8 hits or so, due to its 400 hull armor. Of course, at the highest end of the scale, the galleon would take 16 hits with the hammer, due to its 800 hull armor. (This hypothetical rule would be one hit per ≈ 50 hull armor hp) Of course, these hypothetical numbers could be changed. This would make the buffing system slightly easier to understand, and also make the whole buffing system more dynamic, and could [increase] the viability of buff engineers on some low-hull armor ships (I'm looking at you, mr. squid.) For example, in the heat of combat, it could make the squid seem less squishy, as when the hull drops, a buffgineer could more quickly buff the hull, due to the dynamic system of buffing, which would make buff hammers more welcome in certain situations, i.e. when running a squid against two or so metamidions.


I would like opinions/comment/intense discussion/harsh critiques on this proposed mechanic.

Offline Imagine

  • Member
  • Salutes: 59
    • [MM]
    • 19 
    • 33
    • 22 
    • View Profile
    • Twitch Stream
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 12:50:19 am »
I see what you're saying, and it makes sense, but I fear that if you were to shorten the amount of whacks it takes to rebuild to a negligible amount on some ships, it would become so mandatory that you might as well just increase the ship armor instead.

Offline macmacnick

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 121
    • [Clan]
    • 16 
    • 35
    • 19 
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile: Macmacnick
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 12:55:39 am »
Hence why I used an example amount for this, which in reality would be more beneficial to those ships already lacking in hull armor, as in the example, if each whack was for every ≈50 hull health, it wouldn't really encourage buffs to galleon hulls or Pyra/Junker hulls, which usually are never done except in high level play or by newbies bringing say mallet buff extinguisher, which already limits their efficiency.

Offline Dutch Vanya

  • Member
  • Salutes: 107
    • [Clan]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 01:08:37 am »
I just wish holding the mouse button was as fast as frantically clicking for all that time, though i guess this isn't really on topic.

Offline Thomas

  • Member
  • Salutes: 80
    • [SPQR]
    • 20 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 01:33:28 am »
It kind of makes sense, but my real issue when it comes to hull armor buff is that it's % based.

Ship - Armor (buffed)

Squid - 230 (299)
Goldfish - 400 (520)
Junker - 700 (910)
Galleon - 800 (1040)
Pyramidion - 650 (845)
Spire - 400 (520)
Mobula - 600 (780)


Ideally I'd like it to go back to being a straight buff (I believe it used to be a flat 200 armor for every ship). Otherwise changing the time to buff depending on their armor (and ultimately the armor they gain) would be a good call. I would try to scale it so that the ships around 600 armor or so take the same amount of time as it takes now to buff, while the ships with lower armor take less, and the ships with higher armor take more than that.



Offline Crafeksterty

  • Member
  • Salutes: 73
    • [GwTh]
    • 17 
    • 28
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 01:32:13 pm »
As soon as you buff the hull, and then try to prebuff it, it will take even longer. Because youve just increased its armor.

I think that is why it is not emergent, and strictly fixed for component type.

For example, it takes just as many hits to buff a main engine as it takes to buff a side engine. Even though the main engine is more powerfull and has more health than the side engines. Same with heavy gun and light guns.

I would actually like having emergent system with the buff in regards to health of the components. Hull on its armor number, components and weapons on their health number. Main engine and heavy weapons finaly take maybe 5 to 6 more whacks to buff. But then it will also account to lower healthed components. If you place this system with the ammount of whacks it takes to buff something. Then you should also consider the components that allready have lowest maximum number of health. Will they then repair faster? etc etc.

If you make the system say "It changes the ammount of whacks in a fixed number of maximum healths" And not an algorithm or a system, then you have made things fixed and difficult for the future of tools items and ships etc etc.

You cant look at the ships armor as a refrence point as the ships themselves can change for balance reasons. The spire had some drastic armor and hull health changes at some point. So, if this where to be experimenten, it should be decided thru testing of the various degrees of numbers placed with the system to whack for a buff than a refrence point. A ship can have JUST enough armor to make it one whack longer. Buff it by making it have less armor, then you have a one whack less to buff but a weaker armor and precentage gained from it.


Right now, you get lots of time for the buff to stay on the hull, but on ships like the squid, it does not really matter because you should be buffing the 4 engines instead.

Offline macmacnick

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 121
    • [Clan]
    • 16 
    • 35
    • 19 
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile: Macmacnick
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 04:43:13 pm »
What I meant was the buff time taking into account only the default amount of hull armor, not the buffed amount., if it is buffed.

Offline Crafeksterty

  • Member
  • Salutes: 73
    • [GwTh]
    • 17 
    • 28
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 07:41:26 pm »
No, but the buff ammount will increase when it is buffed. That is because you made the numbers that make the number of whacks to take, even higher.


Right now, when you buff a hull, you increase its rebuild time. Try it out. And count the number of spanner hits after a normal hull break down, and a buffed hull breakdown.
Same will apply for the buff if you let the emergent system take in with the effect from the number of armor.

Because it is a simple increase on the numbers much like how ammo makes the gun work different. Not a fixed new entiety of numbers.

Offline macmacnick

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 121
    • [Clan]
    • 16 
    • 35
    • 19 
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile: Macmacnick
Re: Hull armor Buff time in relation to hull armor health.
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 08:47:24 pm »
ah. well then, why not take into account of the buff? shouldn't be too big of an increase.