Author Topic: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits  (Read 7520 times)

Offline Wundsalz

  • Member
  • Salutes: 72
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2014, 03:40:10 am »
Especially a long range Galleon is one of the hardest ships to master for any role. The long range heavy weapons are among, if not THE hardest weapons to shoot. For the maindeck engie it's not easy to find a proper balance between maintanace and contributing towards the damage output. The Pilot has got to master an uncommon set of activities. Flying a galleon really feels entirely different than flying any other ships, as it's not so much about fancy maneuvering, but about more about maintaining arcs while releasing pressure from the maindeck engie by helping out with repairs. Furthermore the captains view is extremely obstructed. If your targets are even slightly below you, also one can't see whats going on behind the galleon if one's on the steering wheel.
One of the major drawbacks of galleons is probably its vulnerability to face hugging enemies. If an enemy manages to slip through your long range side and shoots at you from a blind spot, you usually need the help of your team mate to get out of that situation.
Another drawback is its inability to handle disables properly. Especially with the current meta, which is quite artemis-heavy at the moment this frequently causes problems.

Despite these drawbacks I think the Galleon is well balanced. If the ships runs smoothly it can easily be turned into one of the most devastating killing machines. And if your enemies manage to get through your defense you can still help your team simply by drawing attention and tanking damage with your enormous hull and armor.


Offline Deltajugg

  • Member
  • Salutes: 16
    • [Rydr]
    • 28 
    • 45
    • 25 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2014, 03:56:54 am »
Quote from: Captain Phil
1: regarding guns: Where are you guys in agreement and disagreement regarding the heavy guns of the galleon also being one of its major banes? As a gunner, do you find it easier to shoot a Fish's gun then a galleon's?
I personally think it's not really about the guns being heavy or not, because I believe the only thing that would happen in case of replacing the gun spots with light guns would be less effective fire power. I definitely agree that their placement is a bane for Galleon, though, as neither you can defend your ship's balloon up high from any popper attacks, nor you can properly aim in a longer distance battles during the time the ship is moving. As already said, Goldfish is much easier to aim with because of it's straightforward flying method, simply charging forward and shooting hwacha, and Galleon, despite having two guns on the side will be less effective most of the time, unless you stop the ship, but then it is even easier to snipe the Galleon down.

Quote from: Captain Phil
2:As an engineer, how difficult is it to keep all 4 guns functional, shooting, and keep track of the engines all at the same time?

It's definitely easier to repair Galleon than Spire, Squid or even Mobula, that's for sure.
If we just say about keeping them fully repaired all the time, there's not really much problem. No matter how you look at it, Galleon is a huuuuuge ship, and it's guns are always deadly, so most of the time there's more focus on taking down guns rather than engines, and the engines can't really be taken down by a random shot on the guns, as they are too far away from eachother, completely separate targets. Because of that, it's rather easy to maintain the lower deck, unless you are attacked from both sides. If there is a problem with repairs, it starts when main guns are completely taken down AND the ship is attacked at the same time during the repairs, repairing heavy guns takes alot of time to bring back, with it's repair time nicely covering with another hwacha shot coming to destroy them again. Taking down the guns completely gives enough time to deal damage to the engines, and then, even with help of the gunner, you can't maintain the repairs with enough efficiency.

Quote from: Captain Phil
3:positive aspects: What other bonuses do you think the galleon has, and dose it and the ones I list have many downsides to go along with it?
As I said, Galleon is huuuuuuge, so engines and guns being far away from eachother might be treated as separate targets, I'll even say that this feature makes lower deck guns and upper deck gun two different target, being unable to disable them both at the same time most of the time. Because of that, and relatively strong hull armor, it's relatively easy to maintain most parts of the ship in good health, despite balloon's vulnerability and quite a bit of a problem with bringing the disabled parts back to work.
I also like the ability to transition from long range to close range mode. The same reason I like junker, having two powerful heavy guns on both sides of the ship gives a little bit more strategy options for the ship, using mercgun+flak/lumberjack, and dealing with carro/hwacha against advancing ships. That, of course, works only against ships that don't have long range guns themselves, but depending on your teammate being able to take the focus on themselves, the long ranged bombardment is viable and devastating tactic.
It's been said already, but high hull durability really is a plus for Galleon. Sure, you might not be really happy about squid/goldfish popping your ballon down, but if they want to keep it down, they can't really do much more than that either. I once had a game where a squid kept popping our balloon down, and we spent 10 or 15 minutes on the ground, trying to go back up all the time, and we were able to maintain the hull long enough so our ally would take down other enemy ship enough times for us to win. I know it's funny, but with ships that are heavily focused on balloon popping, it's quite easy to just stay on the ground and hold this ship at bay, while your teammate does the job for you  :D

Quote from: Captain Phil
4:Final question on Galleon: Where do you think the galleon sits in the Meta? Do you consider the galleon a difficult ship to Pilot/Crew? And, do you think the galleon needs some love (squid does too, but later on that one) and if so, what do you think can be changed to help the galleon become easier to use and/or not so easily beaten as it currently is.

It is definitely one of the most difficult, if not even THE most difficult ship to pilot, and despite being relatively easy to maintain most of the time, if something's disabled, it's really troublesome, not to mention that you either become an easy target for other ships or you're unable to shoot properly, so that's that as well. I definitely agree that galleon could use some buffing, what comes to mind at the spot is increasing balloon's health, but, having asked this on yesterday's stream, Eric said they don't plan to touch their health on skirmish "to maintain the balance", even though I say that this is exactly the reason why something about balloon's health on particular ships should be changed. It definitely wouldn't hurt if galleon's heavy guns were a little bit harder to disable, but not to the point of buffing heavy guns overall, like suggested by Thomas, cause that would also buff other Heavy Gun reliant ships, and some of them don't need any more buffing. I would suggest covering them with the hull more or MAYBE (a man can dream) providing the ship with a mechanic that could hide and uncover guns by pulling the lever (something like cannon windows in standard ships). Also, to give people some way of protecting their ship's balloon, it would be nice to have one or two additional light gun slots on the upper deck. Those are my thoughts about it right on the spot, I'll try to think of something more later.

Offline Milevan Faent

  • Member
  • Salutes: 15
    • [Cake]
    • 8
    • 31 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2014, 05:09:06 am »
I'll probably contribute to this conversation fully later, when I'm not so tired, but I'd like to point out (yet again) that they are MEDIUM guns, as the game has no Heavy guns despite the still remaining typo that Muse has not fixed.

No. They used to be Medium, but they were renamed Heavy. Large weapons used to be in the works, but they were scrapped. They would've all been about this big:

[imageremoved]

Enough of that though. Let's not derail this thread too much.

Metafive explained the Heavy/Medium weapon thing to me as if it was still a thing though... regardless, they are still typoed. All the guns have typos in fact, as even Light weapons are Light/Small, rather than a consistent type. Anyway.

After having looked over what everyone else is saying, I realized I don't actually have enough experience in the Galleon to really contribute to this conversation as much as I'd like. I haven't had many good experiences in it though. For what should be one of the hardest ship's to take down, I rarely felt like my crew contributed effectively to the match.

Offline Spud Nick

  • Member
  • Salutes: 130
    • [✦✦45]
    • 40 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2014, 05:10:40 am »
With a Galleon it's more about the crew than the pilot.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2014, 08:51:14 am »
Still reading through the thread but I do want to get this out there:

Galleon is perhaps the only boat that really requires support from their ally to be at 100%. It's practically a battleship, and as such needs the support vs the more nimble targets. It was so "great" back when ships were faster (and broken) because it didnt need that support near as much as it does now.

With a Galleon it's more about the crew than the pilot.

And that's wrong. A pilot gives you arcs, gives you momentum direction for your gunners downstairs, and maintains an advantageous position on the map for their boat and team. The entire crew is always important.

Offline redria

  • Member
  • Salutes: 136
    • [OVW]
    • 16 
    • 31
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2014, 09:00:05 am »
With a Galleon it's more about the crew than the pilot.
And that's wrong. A pilot gives you arcs, gives you momentum direction for your gunners downstairs, and maintains an advantageous position on the map for their boat and team. The entire crew is always important.
Pilot is always the most important part of a crew. The best crew in the world is helpless if their pilot can't give them gun arcs.
Galleons maybe require a crew to be better at shooting and understanding ammo types than on other ships, but you need your pilot to put you in position to use those tools.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2014, 09:15:31 am »
Quote
1: regarding guns: Where are you guys in agreement and disagreement regarding the heavy guns of the galleon also being one of its major banes? As a gunner, do you find it easier to shoot a Fish's gun then a galleon's?

2: on mobility: What items do you bring with what guns as a pilot, and do you find yourself easily out positioned even with your mobility items? As an engineer, how difficult is it to keep all 4 guns functional, shooting, and keep track of the engines all at the same time?

3:positive aspects: What other bonuses do you think the galleon has, and dose it and the ones I list have many downsides to go along with it?

4:Final question on Galleon: Where do you think the galleon sits in the Meta? Do you consider the galleon a difficult ship to Pilot/Crew? And, do you think the galleon needs some love (squid does too, but later on that one) and if so, what do you think can be changed to help the galleon become easier to use and/or not so easily beaten as it currently is.

1. A gift and a curse I imagine. Nothing can pump out damage comparable to a galleon with all guns going. It can kill a ship under 3 seconds (an extreme yes, but happens). Ill elaborate more on my mindset with the guns going down. As a gunner, if the galleon is properly flown, the guns are easier to shoot. That said, its just a natural answer to say yes, they are harder to shoot, thanks to the horizontal movement. There is a reason no forward-gun-mounted ship has two heavies though.

2. Spyglass, claw, drogue. If the enemy lacks balloon harass, then swap drogue with kero/moon for mobility and dodging. Range is a galleon's best friend. If you lose it, no tool will make you out-manuever anything. This is why you require that ally support, as well as unorthodox piloting to gain back the advantage I talked about earlier. For engies, engines should always be on their mind. Turners are far more important than the main, and thats ok because the bottom deck engie only has guns to repair. As for the guns, you dont need them all up. You need the ones you need shooting up. Back in the arty-meta, id prioritize one heavy gun to be up at all times. If I got two, that was a bonus. A galleon is a meat shield as you said. It soaks damage that your allies get to ignore. It body blocks. It is the wall of your team.

3. Ill probably repeat myself and others here. The health is a valuable asset. The ranges it can be effective at with many guns. The fact it has that many guns. The weight also plays a big role in its ability to push any ship around, use it to gain arcs and advantage. Downsides play off those. It's slow (not the slowest though in a straight line). Turning is slow, altitude change is slower. This ship doesnt like to move much, and with its plus sides, it doesn't have to as much.

4. I think it sits fine, but suffers from its borderline requirement of support from allies. That's not the boat's fault though, and shouldn't be changed because of it. Yes, it's difficult, for reasons I'm sure you know by now. It does not need any "love" (and nor does a squid). How can it get better? Players need to realize that the teamwork of this game is not only ship-wide, but team-wide.

Offline Spud Nick

  • Member
  • Salutes: 130
    • [✦✦45]
    • 40 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2014, 10:03:18 am »
Most captains play as a engineer rather than a pilot because they know that repair tools are more important than pilot tools. You don't really need to fly the galleon witch is why I say the crew is more important. Yes you need to have arcs for your gunners and move to cover when guns are disabled but very little piloting is required.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2014, 10:07:12 am »
You're not doing yourself any favors piloting with an engie. You should be piloting more than repairing. A pilot with a spanner can easily access the hull and balloon of a galleon.

Offline N-Sunderland

  • Member
  • Salutes: 280
    • [Duck]
    • 15 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2014, 11:18:30 am »
You're not doing yourself any favors piloting with an engie. You should be piloting more than repairing. A pilot with a spanner can easily access the hull and balloon of a galleon.

Both going pilot and going engi have their benefits. Engi captaining allows you to bring a buff hammer on the top deck (main engi goes mallet/spanner/buff), which is a huge help.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2014, 12:26:21 pm »
Lets not make this another gunner thread < 3

Offline N-Sunderland

  • Member
  • Salutes: 280
    • [Duck]
    • 15 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2014, 01:00:25 pm »
Lets not make this another gunner thread < 3

Hey, I'm the one saying they're both viable here :P

I agree though. The engi-captain discussion is straying a bit too far from the point of the thread.

Offline Captain Smollett

  • Member
  • Salutes: 122
    • [Duck]
    • 11
    • 14 
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2014, 01:22:52 pm »
Someome made a suggestion earlier of decreasing the rebuild time for heavy guns.

Currently you have both the galleon and goldfish on the lower part of the pecking order very much due to gun disables and the subsequent long rebuilds.

I think this is definitely a mechanic worth looking into. Heavy weapons can be crippled in a way light weapons cannot. Ships give up a lot in order to have heavy gun slots, currently the heavy weapon ships are struggling since this advantage is so easily being denied.

Offline macmacnick

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 121
    • [Clan]
    • 16 
    • 35
    • 19 
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile: Macmacnick
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2014, 01:27:16 pm »
Someome made a suggestion earlier of decreasing the rebuild time for heavy guns.

Currently you have both the galleon and goldfish on the lower part of the pecking order very much due to gun disables and the subsequent long rebuilds.

I think this is definitely a mechanic worth looking into. Heavy weapons can be crippled in a way light weapons cannot. Ships give up a lot in order to have heavy gun slots, currently the heavy weapon ships are struggling since this advantage is so easily being denied.
Agreed, it's a pain when you're about to unload just to get disabled, and then having to rebuild it, and by the time it is finished, the enemy is way out of arcs. The rise of the artemis's popularity really made the galleon an easier target to kill, due to the huge hitbox of the guns and the ease of disabling them from afar using that gun, thus making the galleon an easier target overall.

Offline Captain Phil

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 13
    • [Rydr]
    • 37 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • DeviantART
Re: My thoughts on the Current Galleon and where it sits
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2014, 03:32:47 pm »
Still reading through the thread but I do want to get this out there:

Galleon is perhaps the only boat that really requires support from their ally to be at 100%. It's practically a battleship, and as such needs the support vs the more nimble targets. It was so "great" back when ships were faster (and broken) because it didnt need that support near as much as it does now.

With a Galleon it's more about the crew than the pilot.

And that's wrong. A pilot gives you arcs, gives you momentum direction for your gunners downstairs, and maintains an advantageous position on the map for their boat and team. The entire crew is always important.

Doesn't matter if I give them gun arcs if they cannot get enough consistent hits in to kill an enemy before they get in close. The crew is as important as the Pilot for this ship. And yes, galleon is heavily reliant on its teammates, but sometimes you have to fend for yourself in some situations.