Author Topic: Tutorial Survey  (Read 22907 times)

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2014, 11:34:06 pm »
Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:
  • What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
G:3 E:9 P:11
  • How many matches have you played?
3493
  • Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
Advanced gunner took a little while longer than I expected, but I don't play gunner much.
  • What did you like most about the tutorials?
that they exist now
  • What did you find confusing about the tutorials?
Hard to see the text some times, no explanation on heavy weapons.
  • What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?
See thread: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3371.0.html
  • What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?
I knew the game pretty well before I took the tutorial.
  • Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?
Weapon arcs, and turn speed increases while in neutral.
  • Have you read the in-game manual?
yes
  • Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
yes
  • Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.
White text does not show up well against clouds or the specular highlight on components. I run at very low settings and some times I could not see the text without turning the view away from the component.  There is a trick you can do with unity GUI.Lable(). Before you draw the white text draw the text in black 4 times  ofset by one pixel up, down, left and right. then draw the white text. The result will be white text with a black outline.

[/list]

Offline Tharnator

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 08:28:10 am »
Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:

    What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
9/6/5

    How many matches have you played?
533

    Have you played the current tutorials already?
    If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.
I have played them again just for this survey

    Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
They were pretty good in length

    What did you like most about the tutorials?
That it explained the different tools the different classes had rather well

    What did you find confusing about the tutorials?
nothing, they were pretty selfexplanatory

    What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?
That the Gunner was useless because engis could shoot too

    What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?
That ammotypes were wierd and useless, i just kept with regular ammo

    Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?
How the game works outside of a match. Changing classes or equipment is never mentioned and is often unknown to new players. Leavecount, Progress, Social tab and so on are not explained.


    Have you read the in-game manual?
yes

    Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
yes, and i realized the map-achieves are really hard to get

    Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.
For Gunner: There is nothing on Medium Weapons in the Tutorials, and not all small weapons are mentioned. Also, while early weapons like the flamer or carronade have text saying what they do, late weapons like the mortar or sniper don't. Also, I would find it useful to show some weapon combinations that are common (for example gat/mortar, hades/artemis etc.). Lastly, newer players don't know what ammotype to use on which gun, so a firing range, as suggested on the forums by somebody would be useful.

For Engineer: Maybe the Tutorials should mention, which engines are the turning engines and which is the speed engine. Also, it should be mentioned that the hull and the balloon are highest priority, then the engines and then the guns, as many newer players do not know this.

For Pilot: The tutorial should tell newer players that they should first play as gunners or engis before flying a ship. It should also instruct them to try the different ships in practice mode before flying them on their own

The Manual on the maps should include information on what the map is like. Labyrinth for example: Bad visibility, many obstacles, close range. Battle on the dunes: good visibility, barely any obstacles, very long range

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2014, 11:46:06 am »
An addendum to my previous comment:
I just realized the tutorial takes place on the player's active ship (which in my case was the Pyramidion). If there was tutorial content on the medium weapons I did not see it because there is no medium weapon mount on the Pyra. You may want to consider putting the player on a goldfish for the tutorial.

Offline ramjamslam

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2014, 02:52:53 pm »
An addendum to my previous comment:
I just realized the tutorial takes place on the player's active ship (which in my case was the Pyramidion). If there was tutorial content on the medium weapons I did not see it because there is no medium weapon mount on the Pyra. You may want to consider putting the player on a goldfish for the tutorial.

Holy crap I never new that.  I tried it on a pyramidion so some of the comments I made are specific to the pyramidion tutorial (and even the loadout I had - artemis on side gun).  I just tried both gunner tutorials on a Galleon, it didn't use the heavy weapons, but in the beginner tutorial the only gun I used is the back gun where I had a mine launcher there so I had to direct hit the target hull and balloon with the mine launcher to complete the tutorial.

Offline Caylin

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2014, 05:53:29 am »
I have received an alarming amount of complaints from randoms I have played with recently about how awful the tutorial is and how one can only learn the game through the slim chance of being taught by a veteran. I've mentioned a comprehensive video tutorial that would be shown after a player loads for the first time to teach it all and get it out of the way, yet still remaining on YouTube to go and look at later. In all seriousness, the amount of players who have permanently quit the game because of how inaccessible it is, is a major problem. Accessibility is one of the most important things in keeping a player actually playing. Frankly, I wouldn't play a game that I had no idea how to play while I was getting wrecked every single match by people who do. In fact, that even makes it harder to learn, because getting thrown in the deep end can sometimes be overwhelming and rage inducing in many individuals.

Players have told me that the tutorials don't go into the slightest detail about how to actually be a gunner or an engineer, and barely teach the important mechanics. Personally, I haven't played through it, but from the fact that every new player in multiple lobbies agreed that a video commentary tutorial would be 1000% better seems to be a good reason to change things. There's no point advertising a community and tournaments to people who hate the game because it's hard to learn and thus play. The majority of people who play the game and will continue to already are aware of how badass the community and tourneys are or aren't the kind to indulge in that stuff, while the rest don't care 'cause they'll quit in a couple weeks at best. Steam sales will get a quick cash boost, but won't keep people. Deals with YouTubers will do the same. People will play for a laugh like their favourite YouTubers, but won't actually learn the game and will put it down once their YouTubers go onto something else.

Popularity comes from people recommending the game, and that requires people to keep playing it enough to really like.

So, my suggestion which I've pitched to some randoms is a set of video tutorials, going through each mechanic in a simplified way, such as character loadouts and effective ship builds and weapon/damage types and class roles ect. ect. which they've all agreed would be much better. This could be done by when a player first loads the game or clicks the tutorial tab, an in game window pops up with a bunch of videos with titles like, "ship customisation and loadouts", "basic gunning", "advanced gunning", "weapons types", "tips and tricks", "piloting 101" and so on a so forth in such a manner. I'm aware that videos already exist on the site, but they are outdated, unpolished and could use more than one person to spice it up, and preferably people with proven ingame experience and knowledge, with a backstreet vocabulary who regularly play times, such as many of the CAs and competitive players will already have. as much as I love you guys at Muse and obviously you have the knowledge, I don't think a dev is quite right, as you might not get as much play time and down to earth communication with a variety of players as some of the community gets.

The important thing to remember is that alot of new players will not go to the website or check the forum, because the can't be bothered. Now I'm not in favour of dumbing down the community to accompany newbies, and I'm not asking for any of you to change your attitude, you all do a fantastic job as CAs, but I believe that no amount of helping people in game and organising novice matches and dropping tips can do as much for the lazy world we live in as a video that they can watch and take in without having to do anything.

I am perfectly willing myself to volunteer for doing one or two of the voice overs for these things, or having auditions and whatnot, but it needs to be quick, yet comprehensive for each section, without being monotonous, with edited together clips ingame of relevant things to what's being said. oh, and quality of sound is important. it'll feel tacky and boring if the speaker's got static and stuff. By the way, this'll make your jobs easier as when a player says "i'm new, need helpz pl0x" you can just say "watch the tutorials, they'll explain it" rather than "join novice matches" which probably won't help too much for 70%, or "i'll help you out ingame" which takes time and leaves other players on their own, as apparently, recommending the tutorial won't help :P

Thank you for reading, I'm open to suggestions and feedback as always ^^

tl;dr: video tutorials, help the newbies

(this is just a copypaste of a post i made somewhere else, wasn't aware of this thread ^^)

Offline Lenin's Ghost

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2014, 02:53:32 pm »
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3450.0.html

Can you refer to this mr. Lenin sir? please don't hit me *ducks and covers*

No need to duck and cover! :) I don't see every forum post, and this is certainly relevant to the discussion. There are some interesting ideas in that thread.

I am happy to say that a lot of the points that were brought up are things that we have already been considering. I am *also* happy to have read some points that we hadn't considered. For instance, I personally prefer more interactive tutorials - but if some people prefer videos I'd like for that option to be available.

Thanks again to everyone for your input!

Offline Goldenglade

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2014, 02:56:11 pm »
The firing range would have to be on an elevated platform so we can learn drop ^.^

Offline Caylin

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2014, 03:07:57 am »
my current issues with the tutorial are that first, not everyone will bother to do them, they'll think " you know what, i'm a beast, i can learn this game no prob!"... and we all know how that ends up (complaints about game sucking, stacked teams ect. and everyone goes away sad and the game looses a possible player and their recommendation, and we get bad publicity). a quick, 30-60 second video when you first launch the game just saying "so, this game is a teamwork based and complicated game. but for starters, all you need to know is this, there are 3 roles on a ship. pilot, gunner and engineer. pilot stays in the top spot of the ship crew, he fly's and is in charge, and he is ALWAYS the one to listen too. the gunner (there should only ever be one) has control of the main/important gun and can change it's ammo. the engineers are in charge of keeping the ship alive and firing any other guns. remember to listen to you captain, and we recommend you check out the tutorials we have made for you, they'll help you survive you first few minutes against a stream of rockets and machine gun fire ^^."

after that, there should be a tutorial tab (nice and big, make it clear ect. but that's obvious) that will have more video tutorials on every subject, plus interactive tutorials, as we already have. a quick overhaul of them through a meeting from CAs and these surveys will be a fantastic thing, but frankly, people need the option to have a video tutorial, and they need to do a tutorial of any kind. this is not a "if they feel like it, they should do tutorial, but it's there choice" kinda thing. this game should have a mandatory mini tutorial, for both their own, and other people's enjoyment. 80% of the time it will stop them raging if they are forced to learn in a way that doesn't make them feel like their time is wasted. think of it as a personal introduction to the game to guide them to the tutorial. this may just be me, but i believe that it's a necessary addition.

P.S.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 03:12:26 am by Caylin »

Offline Norim

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2014, 04:07:04 pm »
So I am completely new to this game I bought it a while ago but I want to put some serious time learning it so this weekend I actually ran it and was delighted to see there were tutorials that either I missed or wasn't there the last time I tried to play (I didn't even make it past the main screen sadly) so I did all of them except the Advanced Pilot one so far.  So here are my thoughts for what they are worth from someone who has no idea what is going on....

Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:

    What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot) 0/0/0
    How many matches have you played? 0
    Have you played the current tutorials already? All but the Pilot Advanced (Which I will do tonight)
    If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.
    Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify. I didn't find them long at time I actually found them going too fast
    What did you like most about the tutorials? It gives me a quasi-sandbox to screw up in and to be able to take time and learn things
    What did you find confusing about the tutorials? The gunnery one goes through a lot of guns in the advanced tutorial and almost too quickly I could barely keep all the differences straight before I went to the next one.  Also it seems like it hints to the fact to can start with different items (I guess as an engineer) and you need to pick them but that is never actually made clear at any time
    What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing? I really didn't have any except how the roles were filled but I watched a youtube video of Dodger playing so I knew roughly how it worked
    What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials? Gunners are more complicated then I would have thought...
    Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention? I am not sure but I would say communication is vital in this game I would imagines so maybe some basic notes on that but I haven't played yet so it may be intuitive
    Have you read the in-game manual? There is a manual? I need to explore more
    Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements? Not a clue
    Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience. Its nice to have a practice session of sorts without having any external pressures of having to win.  I haven't explored too much yet but I assume there isn't like a free practice mode where you can just run around a ship like in the training but without getting booted out in the end when you are done so I can keep practicing shooting at moving drones and what not.  Maybe it exists but I have no idea.  I hope to explore in earnest tonight so more so I will update this as appropiate.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2014, 04:54:34 pm »
Quote
I haven't explored too much yet but I assume there isn't like a free practice mode where you can just run around a ship like in the training but without getting booted out in the end when you are done so I can keep practicing shooting at moving drones and what not.  Maybe it exists but I have no idea.  I hope to explore in earnest tonight so more so I will update this as appropiate.

You pretty much just described Practice Mode there. You can access it by pressing "Practice" on the main screen.

Offline Norim

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2014, 08:19:54 am »
Well now don't I feel sheepsih :-X lol thanks.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2014, 11:59:11 am »
This entire thread is for people like you Norim. We want you to know as much as you can. So when you join us in the skies you will be brilliant.

Offline Ricotomo

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2014, 05:22:46 pm »
that they never disappeared.
The all the tools for engineer where being used, and when I started playing I only had 1.

Offline SnipahShot

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Re: Tutorial Survey
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 07:31:09 pm »
    • What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)

      2/3/2
    • How many matches have you played?

      65 matches.
    • Have you played the current tutorials already?

      Yes.
    • Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.

      The tutorials weren't too long. Basically right after the tutorials I knew what I had to do and the first match just polished everything I learned.
    • What did you like most about the tutorials?

      How good it actually was, most tutorials on games actually barely teach you anything.
    • What did you find confusing about the tutorials?

      In the Engineer tutorial, you need to spot an airship, I accidentally shot it down(Yeah, I should read) but after I shot it down I expected it to respawn or something so that I could finish it(Or not explode at all) since that wasn't the point of that specific tutorial part.
    • What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?

      Didn't have any ideas about the game to be honest, seen the trailer and seen some YouTube videos and decided to get it.
    • What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?

      Actually, the tutorial was so good that I actually knew what I am supposed to do.
    • Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?

      I don't think the V commands are anywhere in the tutorial, and they should be.
      I also think that Q should be mentioned as well, I found out about it by accidentally clicking on Q.
    • Have you read the in-game manual?

      Actually, haven't read it but I did browse through it.
    • Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?

      Didn't know that.
    • Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.

      This is actually the question I was waiting for.
      The Progress section isn't explained anywhere and it is really confusing for new players. I had no idea what I needed to complete in order to level up, I also happened to stumble on the prize redeeming.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 07:37:22 pm by SnipahShot »