Tutorial Survey

[Lenin's Ghost]

Hello Guns of Icarus Online!

In the interest of smoothing out the learning curve for beginners and providing all of you veterans more challenging opponents to blast out of the skies, we are taking a look at revising the tutorials.

We've discussed several things in the office, and I have my own ideas about what needs to be changed and updated, but I'd also like to hear some other perspectives. Therefore, I'd appreciate it if you could take a few minutes to fill out this survey.


Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:

• What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
• How many matches have you played?
• Have you played the current tutorials already?
  If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.
• Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
• What did you like most about the tutorials?
• What did you find confusing about the tutorials?
• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?
• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?
• Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?
• Have you read the in-game manual?
• Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
• Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.

Thanks in advance, and happy flying!

[Coldcurse]

I never played the tutorial but I filled in the survey to start it off.
Ill play the tutorial later today though.

Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:

• What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)

5/8/8

• How many matches have you played?

1000+

• Have you played the current tutorials already?
  If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.

I did not play the tutorials. Reason: I rather fight real opponents and learn from their mistakes, and mine.

• Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.

I didn't even had to press the button.

• What did you like most about the tutorials?

It's great that they are there, but I think you are better off acctually playing against reall people.

• What did you find confusing about the tutorials?

Why are there even tutorials?

• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?

Nothing is the same, Every game is different.

• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?

This question should be asked before the question above.

• Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?

Every game is different, Don't push yourself and have fun. Do crazy stuff and keep trying out new things that nobody woul have thought off. NEVER SNIPE!

• Have you read the in-game manual?

I did, somehow.

• Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?

Why would this be a thing? I rather have the full manual right away and not have to look it up every time. Keeping information away until a specific time is not really a great thing. I would now rather call it "The Information book" then a manual, because manuals have all the information and seeing your question now tells me the manual misses information at the start. This will discourage players to use the manual, but encourage them to ask other players for help.

• Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.

Tutorials are ok, but I preffer real fights where you can learn more. AI will never act like an actual human. AI calculates whats important for them to do, humans are way above that level and prioritizes what is really important. AI never communicates, people do.
[/list]

[GreyTea]

Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:

What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
6.13.9
How many matches have you played?
2165
Have you played the current tutorials already?
yes

If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.
Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
Felt not long enough maybe more in depth instruction for ui leave count and loadout
What did you like most about the tutorials?
The variety of weapons used though damage was not explained

What did you find confusing about the tutorials?
Loch in a gattling gun for the last hit for a kill

What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?
xp system and leveling

What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?
None come to mind

Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?
Loadouts types of damage per gun i.e shatter explosive and what they do types of matches and what pilot tools do

Have you read the in-game manual?
Yes

Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
Yes wilson notes is not fully explained until you unlock them

Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.

Like previous mentioned i think the tutorial should be more fleshed out, and explain the types of weapons ie, shatter and flachette make the player hit said target a few times and involve heavy weapons, perhaps explain the loadouts and for an effective team and the pilot chooses and designs loadouts for his or her play style, also for the pilot maybe for a pilot show the advantage and disadvantage for every ship so people get a feel because once a player leaves novice they immediatly pick spire mobula galleon and they have no idea how to fly because it is never explained. also cross over angle for weapons angles  perhaps a tool tip for the pilot to see the angle the guns can hit i know it would be ui clutter but the option to see as a help tip would be nice, so the pilot knows what postion to put the ship, and the benifits of mixing up types of damage rather than just explosive weapons up top and no piercing.

[macmacnick]

What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
4, 9, 5.
How many matches have you played?
≈500+
Have you played the current tutorials already?
Nope, I last did the 1.3.1 tutorials; all that was needed was engineering tutorial for me, then the rest of the experience came with real people; No time or computer resources for the tutorials at the moment.
If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.
Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
N/A
What did you like most about the tutorials?
Short but effective. (based on observed results from newbies before/after tutorials)
What did you find confusing about the tutorials?
The fact that the gunner tutorial is needed at the moment. (gunner tutorials can be merged for now, as engineer and gunner overlap largely, rendering the gunner tutorial mostly redundant. Gunner tutorial would only be viable if it l gets an explanation of damage types)
What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?
Crap Community, troll infestation (I came from many games with crap communities.) Reprocussions for falling off the ship, would be hard not to fall off the ship, etc.
What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?
Nothing.
Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?
Complementary damage types, disablers, and the meta; Shipbuild counterbuilds.
Have you read the in-game manual?
yes.
Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
Yes, the Ship notes, along with maps and guns. ("achievements- are in Challenges tab)
Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.
More in-depth explanations, needs an intro to basic ship engineering parkour.

[Wundsalz]

• What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
  8/11/15
• How many matches have you played?
  3000
• Have you played the current tutorials already?
  If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.
• Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
  - pilot basics: I think cutting one wp wouldn't harm.
• What did you like most about the tutorials?
  - the advanced pilot and engineering parts didn't contain any mayor flaws.
• What did you find confusing about the tutorials?
  - pilot basics: the waypoint marks are very small and hard to find once you're close to them. Also They are not indicated on the mini map. I've flown through the marks at a rather fast pace. Passing through them sometimes didn't trigger the next event/tutorial step. If I were to make a guess what causes this problem: Do you actually fire an event as soon as the player enteres the way-point-zone or do you check if the player is within the way-point-zone in regular time intervals? - if it's the latter you might want to use shorter check intervals.
  - pilot advanced: nothing confusing here.
  - gunner basics: I've just played this tutorial for the first time and quite frankly I'm a bit shocked how many misconception it actually TEACHES right from the start. The first thing you do is asking the gunner to mount the artemis at the side of a pyramideon and ask him to strip the hull and pop the balloon of a target dummy. Now here's what bugs me about this: 1.) There is barely any reason for a gunner to shoot guns on the lower deck of a pyramideon - please point him to the top right weapon as that's the spot where most captains send their gunners on a pyramideon. 2.) the artemis is horribly inefficient at destroying ballons and hull armors. Yet the first thing you teach new players is to do exactly that. Why? Let the player use a carronade to pop ballons, a gat to strip hulls, a mortar to kill a target, an artemis to disable components and a flamer to set stuff on fire and elaborate how each damage type works!
  - gunner advanced: You elaborate different damage types and ammuniton types here, which is good. The fact that you ask your gunner to load lochnagar rounds into a gatling gun gives me a headache though. The advanced gunner tutorial is a great opportunity to discuss the weapons and to teach the player standard loadouts and concepts like arming time. Please use it! Go through all guns and elaborate standard ammunition loadouts for them. e.g. for the Hades: Lesmok (for long range shots due to the increased projectile velocity), Burst (for increased AoE) and greased (for short range shots as it reduces the arming distance of the weapon). On an unrelated side note: you send the gunner to the pyramideon side weapons again and the gunner has got a mallet as engineering tools - brr. People who play the tutorial are new to the game and likely eager to learn - this might very well include loadouts. Currently your tutorial sends messages like: "if you want are on the gatling gun, please bring heavy clips, charged rounds, lochnagar shots and a rubber mallet". Which makes me wonder less why people show up with silly loadouts like that in their first matches.
  - engineering basics: it's possible to take the steering wheel and move the ship. Which might very well result in crashes in the landscape - death included. I didn't get any other impressions from this tutorial as it is impossible to complete the tutorial after a respawn. The marks are invisible and moving to the locations the player is supposed to go to doesn't trigger the next tutorial steps. I didn't check if this bug exists in the gunner tutorial as well.
• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?
  - I didn't know what the different damage types do.
• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?
  - I didn't play the tutorials when picking up the game initially. Well I actually played the gunner tutorial which, back then, consisted of "this is a gun, press E to mount! - atta boy! Now left click to shoot!- great work, you've completed your training!". I've refrained from trying the other tutorials afterwards.
• Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?
  -pilot: I'd like to see the current basics and advanced tutorial to be merged to the basics tutorial as movement inputs and steering tools really cover the very basics of piloting. As for the advanced tutorial I'd like you to elaborate some basic tactics - stuff like "this game requires teamwork - try to stick to your partner!"
  - also take a look at the "What did you find confusing about the tutorials?" section
• Have you read the in-game manual?
  - partly
• Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
  - yes. While I like to see actual gun stats, I wonder why you require them to be unlocked, as this kind of contradicts your everything is available to everyone from the start-policy.
• Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.
  - GoIO revolves around teamplay. Yet one can't see other crew members in the tutorial. I think there'd be quite some us for them. E.g. in the gunner tutorial you could let an AI-crew member strip the hull of a target dummy and tell your new player "see the red hit markers? - those indicate that the hull armor has been taken out. Now is your time to shoot the mortar to inflict permanent hull damage to your target." or for the pilot tutorial, you could use AI crewmembers to take care of repairs, rather than the current magical fixes. This would offer new opportunities to introduce the player to new game concepts. E.g. when the player uses moonshine for the first time you could tell the player "look at your engines - if you activate moonshine they take damage which lowers their efficiency. Use the voice commands to ask your engineers to repair them!"
  - use a narrator! reading text is tiresome (especially at the pace you update it).
  - Simulating certain situations might be a good way to teach stuff in a less dry form. E.g. in the engineering tutorial you could let the players ship fight against another pyramideon. If the player repairs the hull properly during the engagement they will survive and the opponent dies. If the player doesn't repair or doesn't do so the proper way - let his ship die and repeat the situation until he has got a hang of it.
  

[zlater75@hotmail.com]

Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:


1. What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)

     10/7/4

2. How many matches have you played?

     1046

3. Have you played the current tutorials already?
If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.

     Yes. Played them briefly at first, then finished them after the beginner level matches were no more accessible and to get the achievement done. Fairly fast and easy.

4. Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.

     Not really. Many other games have longer tutorials.

5. What did you like most about the tutorials?

     Learning the very basics and the gunning.

6. What did you find confusing about the tutorials?

     The function keys for spawning things and making things happen. It was pretty short and basic so a lot was learned by trial and error later ingame.

7. What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?

     I underestimated the strength in teamwork on a ship. How you can help others with doing your part and not trying to do a bit of everything.

8. What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?

     How different tools and ammotypes make a big difference depending on what and how. Certain weapons, rebuilding or repairing.

9. Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?

     Specialisation, how the weapons are different from each other, communication, pilot tools, sandclouds and general needs on a ship (first slot pilot, one gunner, two eng usually and not rushing things).

10. Have you read the in-game manual?

     Not much.

11. Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?

     Nope.

12. Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.

     Tutorial levels could be added for learning more. Basic (what is now), novice, expert. First time player notification about the tutorials and beginner level match availability.
Target practise, real ships not dummies for higher level disabling and piercing training. Koth minimap practise. Couple more maps in tutorial.

[Thomas]

Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:

What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
4/11/11



How many matches have you played?
1400


Have you played the current tutorials already?
If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.

Partially. I jumped into them to verify some questions a player had about them.



Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
Not really.

The Engineer Training Beginner Tutorial can loop indefinitely however. Had this happen at the fire extinguisher part. It would tell you to run to the gun, then put it out. I must have done this too fast as the message to put the part out stayed. If I got too far from the gun, it would tell me to go to the gun, then light on fire again. I put it out immediately and this looped a few times until I just used the fire ext on the gun after it had already been put out.



What did you like most about the tutorials?

They do a pretty good job of describing what each tool does.



What did you find confusing about the tutorials?

Some of the white boxes are hilariously off. This was very noticeable on the mobula I was using (hull and balloon point).

One issue that came up from a new player was the zoom function didn't seem to work (Gunner Beginner). Turns out they were using a flamethrower in the tutorial which doesn't zoom.

Using the loch in the gatling (should save it for the field gun at least)

It doesn't distinguish very well between 'instruction' and 'information'. A lot of information is given, but not required for completing tutorial objectives (see: zoom function).



What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?

Probably the damage types and ship components. I know a lot of new players come in and just try to shoot the ship, and need to be informed that the 'ship' is actually made up of different parts they can aim for. New players also need to be told what to aim for on what gun, usually with a very brief description of the damage types.


What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?

It did a good job of describing the various tools, but didn't give any indication on what you should bring. At some points it gives you incredibly bad loadouts when describing the tools. (Hey kids, here's a buff kit, fire ext, and chem spray. Good luck out there!)


Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?

A better job of describing the different parts of the ship to a gunner (hull, balloon, engines, guns) and the damage types. Letting pilots be more aware of the damage they're actually doing to the balloon/engines with the pilot tools (in the tutorial, they're repairing slowly over time or rebuild on breaking).

Have you read the in-game manual?
Yes. One quick note is that in the game, only the "Game Manual" is available instead of all the rest (Wilson's notes, Lusse's Travels, Evadne's Reports)

Needs to be updated
-C can be used for team chat in the lobby
-Some tools have been changed/added (chute vent, range finder, chem spray, fire ext, etc)


Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
Yes, this can be both interesting and frustrating. (You have to remember that most 3v3 and 4v4 matches are played very infrequently, but you still need to play them as much as the 2v2 maps to unlock them)


Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.

Obviously there's no substitute for real in-game experience, but having them be aware of the damage types and ship components would help. On an unrelated note, the 'Teaching' achievements are ridiculous. There's no reason to spend 8+ hours in practice mode, as there's not a whole lot to cover there that wasn't covered in the tutorial. While anything you can and should be teaching them is best to do in actual matches.

[Lenin's Ghost]

First, thanks for the feedback so far everyone

Second, I just realized that the forum lists your class levels underneath your name... woops

[Goldenglade]

What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)

Lol forums


How many matches have you played?

1200+


Have you played the current tutorials already?

The only reason i played the current tutorials, was because during the pewdiepie event there were some complaints about the gunner tutorial. I'll admit the wording and/or moving of the balloons did make the gunning tutorial a bit harder then it needed to be for learning the guns I shouldn't have to move the ship  to learn how to shoot. o.o.


Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.

The pilot tutorial seemed a bit short but most things i guess you learn from the pilot tutorial are basicly about moving the ship. It's going to vary from ship to ship in regards to what really needs to happen.


What did you like most about the tutorials?

the definatly covered the basics well.


What did you find confusing about the tutorials?

The wording in the gunner tutorial i remember to be a bit difficult.... but i'd have to go back to make sure specificly what part people had brought complaints to me for exactly.


What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?

Setting up the guns....... SETTING UP THE GUNS!!!


What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?

Weapons that are strong for breaking armor vs haul damage.


Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?

See statement above


Have you read the in-game manual?

The manual is handy little reference tool but of course it doesn't exactly teach you what to do.


Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?

yes.... however they only show stats... which are great for theory of game... not for concept


Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience.

rabble rabble beginner matches were... a joke back then

[Oliver Colt]

• What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot)
  
  Gunner 2, Engineer 4, Pilot 3
  
  
  
• How many matches have you played?
  
  135
  
  
  
• Have you played the current tutorials already?
  If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them.
  
  I played them a while ago and replayed for this just now
  
  
  
• Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify.
  
  Nope, I have a low attention span and managed to sit through them
  
  
  
• What did you like most about the tutorials?
  
  That I get to use the stuff around the ship as I learn how to use it.
  
  
  
• What did you find confusing about the tutorials?
  
  Maybe a few bits of text about the advantages and disadvantages of some tools/ammo/guns that have very similar terms and as I had to read fast I couldn't quite make out what it was trying to say exactly xD I'd have to take a screenshot and read them slowly a few times
  
  
  
• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing?
  
  I thought it would be a MMO :0
  
  
  
• What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials?
  
  That it'd be easy to know when it was best to use which guns/ammo/ships/ship builds/helm tools... Basically I thought I'd be easy to be something that is not engie xD but maybe that's just me having a bad memory
  
  
  
• Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention?
  
  OMG gun names and what they look like The tutorial says "this gun is good for..." etc but there's nothing worse than being a newbie wanting to be helpful in a ship thinking "yay I did the tutorials I know what's up" and then hearing the captain say "Oliver, get on the merc" xD It's too basic I know, but I didn't even think of that bit of research before jumping on my first match and I did stick around the sandbox a lot, I just didn't even think of checking gun names (mostly because I thought I'd be all brave and captain all the time) xD
  
  
  
• Have you read the in-game manual?
  
  I've... looked at its pages xD I can't read things without getting distracted, even worse if I'm all hyped about getting in a match so I read what I thought was important or wanted to know at the moment and then went to play P: *feels bad*
  
  
  
• Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements?
  
  Yes I think it's cool cuz it made me curious of what it could be and I read a few more pages while I was there
  
  
  
• Please leave any other comments or suggestions regarding the Tutorials, educating new players, or the first time player experience
  
  Most of the issues I had with the tutorials and game in general are because I have a terrible memory and don't pay much attention so no problems there xD
  

[The Sky Wolf]

1. What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot) - 5 Gunner/5 Engineer/6 Pilot.

2. How many matches have you played? - Almost 800.

3. Have you played the current tutorials already?
If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them. - I did play them recently.. Played them long after learning combat piloting from live match trial and error.

4. Were any of the tutorials too long?  Please specify. - Not at all.

5. What did you like most about the tutorials? - I liked how it thoroughly teaches you about every ship item.

6. What did you find confusing about the tutorials? - There ought to be an arrow pointing down at the specific ship item it's trying to teach you about.

7. What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing? - I thought any gun could kill a ship ...Which is why I used to fly an all Gatling Gun Pyramidion ..I thought the reason we got different guns to choose from was simply preference of fighting style.. So I did all Gatling Guns because I wanted to be like the Red Baron... I was disappointed when I found out almost every gun completely relies on another gun or ship ramming to get a kill, but I'm now used to it.

8. What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials? - I did the tutorials long after learning from trial and error how to effectively fly in combat so I couldn't tell you.

8. Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention? - Most guns requires another specific type of gun for a kill... You should stick close to your teammate... AI crews are rarely reliable... Live crews prefer a captain with a microphone... Captains don't ever actually need spyglasses... Some ships are better for sniping than brawling... Certain clouds harm you very badly while others hide you... Try to always read crew/team chat no matter how nervous you are... Always study enemy ships before a match... Some ships and gun loadouts are better for certain maps and ....Don't ever get close to a carronade unless you're above and behind it.

9. Have you read the in-game manual? - Yes.

10. Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements? - Yes.

[Goldenglade]

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3450.0.html

Can you refer to this mr. Lenin sir? please don't hit me *ducks and covers*

[Milevan Faent]

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3450.0.html

Can you refer to this mr. Lenin sir? please don't hit me *ducks and covers*

I don't have time to fill out this kind of survey right now, but I support what Goldenglade linked to.

I also agree with the others who say the "manual" shouldn't have info locked behind achievement requirements. I hate that, and just don't look at the manual now that I know it's never going to tell me what I need to know. If I want specific info on a weapon or ship, I should just be able to look it up without having to search through forums and wikis that aren't even up-to-date sometimes, and that's what the manual SHOULD be, but it clearly isn't.

[ramjamslam]

I did the tutorial when it first appeared in the dev app and it was very different then but I have tried out all of the new ones.  here we go!

Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:

• 7/14/10.  btw, levels change in the forum over time so I think there is value in putting them down here.
• 3960
• I played them in the dev app and they were very different back then.  They don't just end abruptly anymore which was the biggest problem (new players thought the tutorials used to crash).
• Engineer beginner is too long, it makes you do each of repair or rebuild 4 or 5 times.  details in next post. 
• For the gunner tutorial I like that it shows a range of different guns
• In the beginner pilot tutorial, I got to the point I was supposed to but it didn't seem to trigger the next step.  I will explain in more detail in my next post on the current tutes
• Wow, it may be too long ago.  I do remember thinking that the main difference between mallet/spanner was if you sat on the hull with the spanner you could get it back to full really quick, but you had to stay there hitting it constantly and that was the main risk/reward difference between the tools.  Turns out that that is not the case and I didn't initially realise the repair/rebuild differences.  This was way before the Tutorial was around though.
• that lochnagar was not good for the gatling gun, but the tutorials totally changed my mind about that
• I think the mallet to repair/spanner to rebuild concept is a bit lost in all the text.  The engineer tutorials should be more pithy like the gunner ones.
• as reference material rather than from front to back.
• Yes, but I think someone might have told me that.  Maybe it should be more obvious when you unlock one of those challenges to go looking in the manual??
• Another post detailing my impressions of the current tutorials incoming...

[ramjamslam]

So turns out I had a few things to say about each Tutorial as they currently stand.  To this point I have tried not to read everyone else's posts before doing mine (ok, I read a little bit), so I may be repeating others thoughts.

Gunner Beginner Tutorial
====================

1. The gunner has a spanner instead of a wrench.  It's a minor point but I'd prefer that the gunner is introduced with equipment that should be using in real games, but at least it's not a mallet (or worse).
2. After firing the first shot the gunner is asked to hit R to reload, but exhausting the clip moves you to the next instruction.  Consider waiting until the player has either changed ammo or hit the R button while the clip is not full until the player progresses to the next instruction.
3. The player is directed to the side gun of the pyramidion.  This is probably just out of convienience but gunners should be introduced to gunning by directing them where they will spend most of their time: the top right of the Pyramidion.  They need to learn where their captain wants them to be.
4. The Artemis is used to demonstrate how to take down both the hull armor and the balloon of a target dummy here, and it does it in 2 shots of each.  Again, I think this is setting up unrealistic expectations that you can just point any gun at any component.  Please consider switching the gunner to a different gun to destroy the balloon.

I know this is just a basic tutorial but I think you should give new players exposure guns at a station that a gunner will use, not the side gune of a pyra.  Since doing this tutorial I noticed that the Beginner engineer is top and bottom deck of the pyra.  Top deck for gunner please!

Gunner Advanced Training
=====================

1. Still on side guns of pyra!!!  These are the guns of the main engi unless you have a sniper side.
2. Magically going through all the guns, this is pretty cool.  I think I'll be recommending this training a bit.  Honestly though, I wish it did all the guns.
3. you probably don't get enough time on each weapon, some dummies are spawned move after a while so you have nothing to shoot at.
4. Target dummy for hades moves left   At least make the dummy for the hades move right so the player can see the target and their previous shots projectiles
5. Gatling gun goes through these ammo types: heavy clip: not anymore, charged: maybe: lochnagar: wtf
6. I think it needs pointing out again: we are teaching new players to use lochnagar in the gatling gun!
6. oh at some point my tool changed to a mallet.  I'm guessing this is a bug.
7. for the mortar Tute burst, greased and lesmok are good but I think the dummy should be spawned further away for lesmok because you don't get a sense that it reaches further from this.
8. Merc rounds: incendiary: wot, heatsink: nice, heavy clip: lol.  Again dummies are spawned too close, and by now there is a ton of dummies banging into each other.
9. After all this, I think the training here should be split up into short range / long range tutorials or have a firing range where you can try _all_ the guns at different ranges.

Engineer Beginner
===============

Maybe it is just me but this was a bit frustrating.  Unlike the gunner tutorial where things went by really quickly, this was very repetitive.  I had to repair a gun from half health 5 times, then rebuild something else 5 or 6 times, it didn't feel like I was progressing.

Engineer Advanced
===============

1. strange that it explains wrench/mallet/spanner without actually using them - this may be bugged.
2. Then gives you a extinguisher/chemspray/buff (lol) and advanced Engineer training is basically 'buff everything!'
3. By "buff everything" I am excluding some of the engines.  You are only told to buff the left engine!  this results in a hard to steer ship.
4. This tutorial gives a false impression that the previous tutes loadout (mallet/spanner/extinguisher) is for beginners and the buff hammer loadout is for experts.  Worse, in advanced you are given a extingisher/chemsparay/buff loadout.  What!?
5. Unfortunately there is no mechanic to teach chem spray (even the current achievements teach you to be reactive with chem spray rather than proactive)
6. Ignoring chem, you should teach the 2 most common loadouts, mallet/spanner/extinguisher and wrench/buff/extinguisher.  Teach the pros/cons of those loadouts.  e.g. teach mallet/spanner/extinguisher then teach the risk/reward of reducing the amount of repair tools by adding buff.

Pilot Beginner
===========

Broken.  I flew to the destination and it didn't register.  One of the rolling clouds broke everything and I was imobile.  There was no AI here to help and just me with a spanner.  I quit this tutorial out of frustration, not knowing how to finish it.  In summary: broken.

Pilot Advanced
============

Going through the pilot tools is ok I guess (no spyglass or range finder ).  At the end it described the functionality of F2 and F3 but again there was no AI, so I think this part of the tutorial is broken.

Thoughts
=======

How do we teach people what ammo to use when patches are changing the effectiveness of them (e.g. heavy isn't as relevant anymore for the gatling gun)?  Rather than shooting at target dummies at near point blank range, I would rather some sort of firing range with different distances and allow the player as much time on each gun to fire at all distances.

A fundamental of this game is crew composition and crew dynamic.  e.g. for the Pyramidion which is used throughout these tutorials you need a pilot, gunner on top right gun, gungineer taking care of the balloon on top left gun and main engi on bottom deck.  If you had new players buy a 4 pack and do the tutorials together or separately, they should have these concepts down.  OK, this reminds me, some of these tutorials you could have others join and some you could not with the error in chat:  "Failed to join match:  target user is not in a match."

On reflection of matches I have played with newer players, I do remember seeing new gunners wander aimlessly around a pyramidion and even players putting incendiary in mercs (I play on a lot of merc/artimes mobulas) so I do wonder if the current tutorials are teaching new players bad habits.

BTW, I typed this up in markdown format (because I hate bbcode) but I can't really be bothered converting it to bbcode .  On the plus side, markdown is totally readable in plain text!