Author Topic: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?  (Read 4893 times)

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« on: October 14, 2014, 01:35:55 pm »
Moonshine grants stronger impulse, therefore can be used quickly to i.e. to avoid enemy bullets and when used cautiously it still can serve the same purpose as kerosene. I think that most experienced pilots use mostly moonshine.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2014, 01:47:29 pm »
I think Kerosine is better from long term burns, like running between two capture points on crazy king or trying to get back to a fight before your ally dies.

Moonshine is better for those short bursts as Disaster says. It is much better for ramming especially with the increased angular drag (stops you spinning after a ram).

The tools are situational. There will be situations where Kerosine is better and situations where moonshine is better. A good captain should plan on the situations they will encounter/create and bring the appropriate tool.

I normally bring kerosine since the utility of getting into or out of combat faster outweighs the benefit of extra ramming power, at least with my play style.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 01:49:11 pm by HamsterIV »

Offline Melon McCrabernathy

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2014, 01:52:53 pm »
Although I am usually seen as a more aggressive pilot, who rams all the time whether its a good idea or a bad idea, I bring kerosene all the time. My reasoning for this is that although you get a greater speed boost from Moonshine, Kerosene's reduced damage to the engines allows you to have it on pretty much all the time, even during engagements. Moonshine on the other hand tends to destroy my engines more than I would like, resulting in even phoenix claw being able to destroy them.

However this may be just because I am unused to using Moonshine...who knows...

Offline Replaceable

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2014, 02:01:13 pm »
As an engi, moonshine is pretty annoying except on Galleons. It might have been the captains were too sparse with their moonshine, but i find that it destroys the engines too fast for me to appreciate the speed boost. Like i have to drop everything and get to the engines, (meaning I might miss a chem etc.) Or I could quit being a baby, be quiet and mallet the engines. Who knows.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2014, 02:06:05 pm »
I some times bring moonshine on Sniper load-out Mobulas and Spires. After a Phoenix claw turn a touch of moonshine can be used to cancel out the turning momentum. Once the ship is stable I can leave the helm and take a gun without worrying the ship will veer off course when I am shooting.

Offline sparklerfish

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2014, 03:50:17 pm »
It really depends on the ship and situation.  When I'm running a ramming pyra build, for instance, I bring both kerosene AND moonshine -- get up to speed with kerosene, hit moonshine right before impact, enemy explodes into little pieces.  Short bursts of moonshine can be helpful for evading, whereas kerosene is better for longer burns.  I don't think you can really say one is "better" than the other overall -- it's dependent on which is better for the particular circumstance.

Offline RedRoach

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 06:16:35 pm »
IMO, (don't hold me to this, piloting skillz  :-\) I feel that Kero is more useful because it doesn't turn engines to dust in 5 seconds or require the removal of your main/buff engineer from any fight. But, I've never managed to escape while burning kerosene away from a pyramidion.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 06:36:32 pm »
The secret to a good escape is combining Kerosine, Tar, and some form of hard cover. Moonsine will burn our your engines before you can get a significant lead. Also since engines can't be kept at full with a spanner and moonshine you run a greater risk of enemy fire knocking out your engines.

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 04:09:16 am »
whereas kerosene is better for longer burns.
ships can achieve a higher average travel speed with moonshine compared to kerosene.

As for my personal preferences:
kerosene in general
moonshine on ships which (1) are good to ram with AND (2) have got an easy engine repair route. So you'll see me bringing shine for brawl pyras most of the time and occasionally on brawl galleons.
Unless one wants to make heavy use of the Pyras side weapon (and hence release pressure from the main engineer) I think shine to be the clear superior pick compared to kero. It allows you to accelerate faster, it allows you to get a higher maximum velocity and a higher average travel speed. Furthermore shine stabalizes the ship better than kero during rams.

Proper pyra-moonshine usage for pilots:
As a pilot you generally don't want to burn it all the time. Instead use the following pattern:
1. use shine until the engines are burned down to 1/4th hp
2. wait until your engineer applies the mallet whacks
3. wait another brief moment to let some mallet cooldown time pass with the engines staying in excellent shape (two seconds or so - I didn't do the math)
4. start over with step 1
regarding point 3. In order to maximize the engine output, you want to time the moonshine usage in a way that the engineer can reapply his mallet whacks right in the moment the engines burn down to 1/4th hp

Proper pyra-moonshine handling for engineers:
A) mallet claps on hull -> side engine -> main engine (which can be hit from below) -> side engines -> the remaining cooldown time for the next mallet whack on the hull can be used to shoot the side guns or to simply watch out for enemies.
B) for excessive moon shining (eg. for fast travel on cps): spanner left engine -> spanner main engine -> spanner right engine -> spanner main engine, repeat. This keeps the main engine in excellent shape while the side engines will burn down slowly. Once the side engines have been damaged sufficiently to fully utilize a mallet hit, alter the route to mallet left engine -> spanner main engine -> mallet right engine -> spanner main engine.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 04:14:53 am by Wundsalz »

Offline Mezhu

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 05:24:58 am »
Kero for scrubs, moonshine all the way.

Offline redria

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 08:54:50 am »
Kerosene for ramming.
Why?
Moonshine is burst only. There are plenty of times where I get someone's side and will proceed to ram them for the next 30 seconds on 1-2 second intervals. Without one of the two active, my ship will lose the proper angle. Good luck balancing those repairs if moonshine is used.

It isn't so much about speed as it is about the ability to constantly and consistently prevent your ship from losing the angle you want. You just can't do that in a prolonged battle with moonshine.

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 09:14:49 am »
It isn't so much about speed as it is about the ability to constantly and consistently prevent your ship from losing the angle you want. You just can't do that in a prolonged battle with moonshine.
That depends on what you want to do. If you want to inflict damage with rams, speed matters a lot and here shine is better at building up velocity quickly. If you just want to gently poke your foes out of arc kerosene is probably the better pick. Still this kind of maneuver can be executed with shine as well by briefly activating it on the impact.

Offline macmacnick

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 11:07:27 am »
There's nothing gentle about Redria's pyramidion rams.

Offline Replaceable

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 06:14:34 pm »
There's nothing gentle about Redria's pyramidion rams.

Nothing at all.


Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Is Moonshine superior to Kerosene?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 10:53:05 am »
To answer the title, no.

Everyone has pretty much posted as to why its not.