Author Topic: Harpoon gun discussion  (Read 19033 times)

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2013, 12:39:09 pm »
Currently if enough force is exerted on the tow line it will break.  I have no idea how much that is, but it is relatively high.


zlater75@hotmail.com

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2013, 12:43:33 pm »
if that force is standstill acceleration force with moonshine i think it would have the reward value.  :-\

Offline Echoez

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2013, 12:53:04 pm »
Moving things with the harpoon doesn't have nearly as much to do with mass as it does with thrust since everything is suspended in air.

Speaking from the perspective and recollection of the former glorious harpoon, it was always good on the front gun of a Junker and rear gun of a Squid and of course excellent on a Galleon.  Should the armor piercing modifier be properly buffed putting one on the front of the Pyra should yield excellent results as it reels you slowly into its mortar with repeated harpoon shots.  It should also be quite good on a mobula, which if you look at the stats, isn't nearly as fragile as people think (though it really does hate rams, vertical acceleration usually makes them a non issue though).

Well, if we are gonna talk physics, air resistance does take mass and profile size into account since into the atmosphere the heavier object will fall faster and/or requires more intial power to move, so it does matter a whole deal here unless GoI uses vacuum physics and I don't know of it.

Of course the Squid would be able to drag the Galleon, but it would take time for that to happen and the Galleon has engines of its own, which are much more powerful than the Squid's and this is all time you spend while they take aim at your rear.

I don't exactly get the Pyra example, are you saying you would use the harpoon as an armor piercer? if that is the case and my answer is simply 'no' that is not possible with the fire rate and the damage it deals and there would be no reason for it to deal any more anyway.

Old harpoon might have been good, but as I posted airlier, realy shows why this gun has issues in general, it restricts horizontal movement and has no counter, plus the only ship that could take real advnatage of it is a Galleon, MAYBE a Junker on its side with a frontal gun that can form a bi-fecta with the other side gun (talking about a new harpoon btw, not the old one, that's as gone as the old Flak is). Anything else would either lose too much firepower or be forced to face the wrong direction due to harpoon physics that force turning.

I'm certain we both agree that the Harpoon should not be a damage dealer, even less an armor shredder.



« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 12:54:53 pm by Echoez »

Offline Serenum

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2013, 01:00:45 pm »

Moving things with the harpoon doesn't have nearly as much to do with mass as it does with thrust since everything is suspended in air.

Speaking from the perspective and recollection of the former glorious harpoon, it was always good on the front gun of a Junker and rear gun of a Squid and of course excellent on a Galleon.  Should the armor piercing modifier be properly buffed putting one on the front of the Pyra should yield excellent results as it reels you slowly into its mortar with repeated harpoon shots.  It should also be quite good on a mobula, which if you look at the stats, isn't nearly as fragile as people think (though it really does hate rams, vertical acceleration usually makes them a non issue though).

Unless you know something I don't I'm gonna have to say that this isn't true or at least not commonplace.
I've harpooned ships with my squid, full speed, kerosene and I still got horribly stuck. You can tangle them and make their manouvering a bit awkard, just like yours after harpooning, but towing? Never seen it happen. Maybe if the enemy has the engines turned off and for some reason he doesn't use them to resist?

Otherwise both ships get stuck pulling away from eachother and that's it.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2013, 01:18:43 pm »
Last I checked the "Rope Physics" are just directional thrust vectors with no enforcement of rope length or breaking strength. The rope breaks if it gets too long, but that is about it. I don't think there is even an increase in thrust vector the further the ships are away from each other (spring tensor system).

One interesting side effect is the impact bumpers. They increase ship drag which dampens the rope's thrust vector and causes your ship to be pulled less. It isn't useful for towing but for a fling attack, the moment your ship looses forward momentum turn on impact bumpers to prevent from being puled backward and you will add a little extra fling.

Be sure to disconnect the harpoon and Chutevent/Helium out of the way before the target ship actually crashes into you.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2013, 01:35:04 pm »
I'm certain we both agree that the Harpoon should not be a damage dealer, even less an armor shredder.

We do not agree on this.

The harpoon should be a viable weapon in and of itself with some interesting utility added on when they fix the harpoon mechanics. 

I'd imagine the harpoon to be a piercing weapon weaker than the mercury and gattling with shorter than gattling range but the utility of a new and improved harpoon mechanic.  This would make it similar in a way to the carousel which loses out on dps to other explosive finishers but gains the added benefit of pouring on fire stacks.

Offline Serenum

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2013, 01:41:37 pm »
I'm certain we both agree that the Harpoon should not be a damage dealer, even less an armor shredder.

We do not agree on this.

The harpoon should be a viable weapon in and of itself with some interesting utility added on when they fix the harpoon mechanics. 

I'd imagine the harpoon to be a piercing weapon weaker than the mercury and gattling with shorter than gattling range but the utility of a new and improved harpoon mechanic.  This would make it similar in a way to the carousel which loses out on dps to other explosive finishers but gains the added benefit of pouring on fire stacks.

Agreed...
One thing I thought about was making the harpoon a "damage over time" weapon, once you are harpooned your armor or harpooned component keeps taking damage, but it can do any real hull damage.
I think it would be a nice risk-reward weapon if that was the case, since it's as much as an obstacle to those that use it as to those that are subjected to it.

Offline Gambrill

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2013, 04:03:43 pm »
i had a pyramidion with dual harpoons. I was  so good at pulling that spires couldn't do anything but be pulled closer even with kerosene xD safe to say its good to ram something while they are headed towards you ;) adds a bit of extra punch :P

Offline Thomas

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2013, 04:24:35 pm »
For me it always feels like stuff gets weird when harpoons get involved. The ship starts acting funny, making it harder to control. I think it can used as a really nice weapon, it's just difficult to use it effectively.

It could be made into a 'better' weapon, but I kind of like it being just a weird fun one; and possibly a good tool in the right hands.

Offline Echoez

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2013, 05:50:11 pm »
We do not agree on this.

The harpoon should be a viable weapon in and of itself with some interesting utility added on when they fix the harpoon mechanics. 

I'd imagine the harpoon to be a piercing weapon weaker than the mercury and gattling with shorter than gattling range but the utility of a new and improved harpoon mechanic.  This would make it similar in a way to the carousel which loses out on dps to other explosive finishers but gains the added benefit of pouring on fire stacks.

Ah, I see, then indeed we disagree. I don't want to see this happen unless the harpoon's appearence changes completely to that of a ballista, currently that gun doesn't look like something that should be inflicting contant damage or even be a damage dealer, more like an one use thing. If it gets changed to a light ballista with a rope, I could see this being cool, BUT AUSTHETICS FIRST!

also the drag effect it has should be less and not as strict, I still believe this is right on its way to become an even more annoying form of carronades for inexperienced people which will then in turn cry foul and eventually get it nerfed into the ground :P

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2013, 09:29:34 pm »
Seems to me getting shot at with a giant harpoon would pierce the armor but maybe that's just me.

Offline The Djinn

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2013, 09:42:14 pm »
Honestly, one of my biggest issues with the gun is that harpoons were not used against ships, and the only reason to use one against a whale (given how dangerous they often were to the whalers) was so that you knew where it was when it died. SO WHY ARE WE USING THEM ON AIRSHIPS?!?

Seriously. I'd much rather a huge armor-piercing ballista than a harpoon, because there really isn't a logical reason to keep a ship tied to you when you don't have boarding and you don't need to find it once it's died to harvest its fat for oil.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2013, 11:54:10 pm »
Why would a ballista do more damage than a steam/gunpowder propelled harpoon?  The force applied on the current model I think would be greater.

Offline The Djinn

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2013, 12:19:29 am »
Why would a ballista do more damage than a steam/gunpowder propelled harpoon?  The force applied on the current model I think would be greater.

By ballista I didn't mean a medieval ballista...I guess I meant a non-harpoon piercing weapon, probably without a connecting rope.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Harpoon gun discussion
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2013, 01:29:24 am »
I would like to see shatter damage on the harpoon instead of piercing.