Raising consciousness for "stacking" !

[Eukari]

I think we're rapidly reaching the "going around in circles" part of the discussion.

Things like unbalanced PuGs are always going to be a problem in a game that encourages teamwork and cooperation, but also mostly builds matches out of random groups of people. Some people will get lucky and build a crew/team that they work well with ... and some won't. There's no real easy solution to that issue, because at its heart its an imbalance in the players, not the game.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

And that, my dear Eukari, is why raising the consciousness/awareness of the players for that problem is something I deem worth trying.

[Andika]

I forgot to mention that I really like the two posters in the op. 

[Calico Jack]

Level 1-3 players, or crews composed of players level 1-3  in a regular match, are actively choosing their matches manually. It used to be in the bad old days before tutorials and level locking that everybody was thrown in together, and the debate about stacking that followed led directly to level locking.

The other thing is new players who come up through the level locked matches don't usually come into contact with more experienced players for obvious reasons and may not have formed an objective opinion of their gameplay skills.

I believe the two situations feed off each other. 

What is then left to each player is to decide when a game is unfair, but I will point out that the first situation has been cited as just cause for stacking in previous discussions about it in these forums. For my own part if I feel that a game is unfair I will do something about it.

I acknowledge stacking is a problem but some times I don't have the mental energy or patience to put up with inexperienced players. Once you have been on a very well run ship/team it is hard to watch people play at a less than optimal level.

Part of my gametime is given over to training new players, and when I'm not doing that there are times I just want to play. There is nothing worse than having a run of really bad matches that you know you could win but the disparity of where you crew/teamie needs to be and where they actually are is just to great to deal with in 1 match. Or two. Or three.

[QKO]

I think it's safe to assume that noone here stacks for the purpose of crushing noobs. They all do it, just like me, to avoid people they can't trust. If I'm presented with a choice to play boring matches with people I know I can trust or play hard matches where I'm looking on my ship more often than in front of me, then I'll go with the first option. I'm also not going to not stack for the sake of noobs, because I'm pretty sure the people on my block wish to sleep in silence. Now you got an answer relative to this thread. If I can trust the people I play with, then it's fine, but I'm not going to test my own patience.

[Garou]

[...] However once I have a good working crew I am loathed to leave them even if it is in the name of balance and fairness.

And that to me is really the point. Again, you take what you can get in PuGs, and having an entire ship swap sides isn't always an option. Additionally, speaking from a pilot's perspective, it's hard to leave a team when you have an allied pilot you can get on the same page with. We've all had that experience: an allied pilot not talking, not working with you, or one of those wacky ships where the gunner is in the commander slot and the pilot is down in the crew.

Yeah, in a respect it could be considered stacking, but by the same token having a certain amount of synergy on your team just makes the game more fun, and lacking any synergy makes the game less fun. It's just how team-based games work, not all teams will be created equal unless you're getting into clan V clan matches.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

Hamster? Your post is gone. Can you write it again please? There were some ideas in there. That sure happened when I was creating my answer. If I caused that I am sorry and it really wasn't my intention.

And I agree upon reflecting and reading your point of view about it that the idea of creating a password protected game and waiting is really not focused on reality. Let's throw that one overboard.

While I have many friends in this game I doubt there are many that like me enough to me to want to join a password protected lobby and wait for it to fill up with players of equivalent skill level form our friend's list. Fully populating a lobby without random joins is very hard without scheduling and clan connections, neither of which I am very good at.

If I find my self on a stacked team I have taken to flying non standard builds. It allows me to practice new weapon combinations and gives the other guys a fighting chance. If  an entire ship on the other team to ragequits I sometimes hop over to the other team and ask my crew to come with me. However once I have a good working crew I am loathed to leave them even if it is in the name of balance and fairness.

I can see that happening. Don't get me wrong, it's in the human's nature to do that. But it's also in the human's nature to hunt and scavenge for food. But we found ways to get around this. So I think if we work on this we can get this sorted out too instead of just don't caring and doing what is best for one him-/herself, be it limitations or making one him-/herself just change for balance now and then.

[QKO]

And I agree upon reflecting and reading your point of view about it that the idea of creating a password protected game and waiting is really not focused on reality. Let's throw that one overboard.

Actually, that would be a part of inhousing...

[HamsterIV]

Wow that was weird, I didn't delete it, nor did I put anything inflammatory enough for Mod attention (I think).

Here is the gist of my previously deleted post:

Setting up a password protected lobby so that you can have an unstacked game is unfeasible for those of us who don't have scheduling skills or a bunch of friends who would abandon their current game to join yours.

My current method of dealing with stacked games is either trying out non standard/low kill power builds, or convincing my entire crew to swap sides with me if their is a completely empty ship. I really don't like jumping ship when I have an effective crew because getting an effective crew together is one of the best parts of the Guns of Icarus experience.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

Your original post is still in my quote, but yeah, I agree with you as said on such locked matches. Been an unrealistic idea.

I just want people to be aware of stacking and to at least think about it, so it may lead to some switch to balance the match now or then (sometimes).
We also could gather ideas, but until now I haven't seen many around here.

[RomanKar]

Something else to consider:  The captains that are being stacked against have the option to leave.  And they also take responsibility for the game they are competing in by pressing the "Ready" button.

I've been on stacked teams many a time.  Usually there is no opportunity to switch teams as players keep flocking in.  They can see what the levels are.  They know what they are getting into.

Another thing.  The way I got any better in this game was playing against so called stacked teams over and over and over again.

The whole argument against stacking is really kinda ridiculous.  No one is forcing anyone to play any particular match.  And if you have so little concern over what is on the other side, then you really aren't trying to win anyway.


Also, it's a lot of fun to discuss boat switching and all when these same players that are being defended against the stackers just keep yelling in voice and match chat, "READY UP!!!!"

In conclusion, there is a really easy way to avoid getting stacked against -- leave. 

[Garou]

I just want people to be aware of stacking and to at least think about it, so it may lead to some switch to balance the match now or then (sometimes).
We also could gather ideas, but until now I haven't seen many around here.

Well, the thing is most of the matches I've been in where stacking has been a serious issue is either in those exceptions I mentioned, or the players themselves sort it out. I see people flipping teams all the time in the sake of balance where it's needed. Nobody likes a match to be too easy or too unforgiving, and the players I've been around have been pretty good about solving the issue themselves.

I don't feel any changes to the game's fundamentals will really address this issue, it's just a byproduct of team-based games. Sometimes one team just has better players than the other. I really don't know what ideas could resolve that.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Gather around children while I share with you the wisdom of the ages:

It isn't stacking if the other team gets at least 1 point.

There, now hold back those tears and go forth and use your new found wisdom for good!

[HamsterIV]

Something else to consider:  The captains that are being stacked against have the option to leave.  And they also take responsibility for the game they are competing in by pressing the "Ready" button.

They actually do take that option frequently. Sometimes they wait until 1/2 way through the match to leave, much to the consternation of those who are still in the game.

[Letus]

There was one time that a couple high levels were on one ship, forget what our ally was...more like mid range, against another midrange enemy ship...and a low level ship.

The enemy ships wanted us to ready up....you know..."ready, ready, ready."

Soo needless to say they did get womped on...with mines...and then they started to argue that we had stacked teams....