Raising consciousness for "stacking" !

[HamsterIV]

Last night there were 4 games running total, If we had segregated 6+,3-5 ect we would have been playing with mostly AI crews. As for handicapping a captain can do that on their own initiative. They could run a duel merc pyra like a brawler, or take an extreamly non meta build. In that regard I have to hand it to the Cakes for aggressively shunning the meta.

[Richard LeMoon]

What you may have seen are crews who spend a bit longer than usual because they want to make sure all of their players know what tactics to expect and ammo to bring.

I know what I saw, and it was not that. There were two ships sitting on the blue team, match after match, with the same meta loadout, same tactics for each match, and they would not ready up until good players got bored of waiting and left. The was the worst I saw. Other times, I have suggested that the more experienced captains try a less powerful build against -first time crews-. I am glad to say that some captains were happy to play along. Others, well, they just said "Shut the **** up" or similar.

So I should be punished when my team is doing well in a match? No thanks ^^

Punished? I really don't see how it would be punishing to make the match a little more challenging for an obviously superior crew and team. I would consider it more fun. Each to his own, I suppose.

[Garou]

Last night there were 4 games running total, If we had segregated 6+,3-5 ect we would have been playing with mostly AI crews.

The idea is that the match 'labeling' is optional, both in regard to the label itself and whether or not to follow the recommendation. I'm not talking about completely segregating the lobbies, but rather the ability to 'suggest' the level range. The players would then have the option to join or not based on that.

Also, as long as it's being brought up, who cares if someone uses 'meta' builds? All 'meta' means is that it's one of the more effective loadouts for that ship and style. If you choose not to use a 'meta'' build, that's fine and your prerogative, but I get a little weary at all the bemoaning of it.

'Meta' does -not- mean 'invincible'. I have lost playing 'meta' builds and won using non-'meta' builds against them. It has less to do with loadout and everything to do with the captains and crews on that team. Don't like 'meta'? Don't use it. Some people prefer and have fun using the 'meta' builds. One of the great things about this game is that there is a ship, weapon, or tactical counter for everything.

We've all seen both good and bad 'meta' ships. Don't blame the ship because you couldn't beat it. Give some credit where it's due and bear in mind that the crews make the ship, not the build.

[Zenark]

While countering meta without another Meta is difficult, it is, yes, very possible, that's not the point though.

When someone flies Meta, the odds are drastically stacked in their favor. Sure we could fly a meta as well, but some of us don't enjoy it and prefer to fly more difficult builds. It sucks for me because as soon as the enemy goes meta, I have to go into tryhard mode since I refuse to fly it myself. Whatever fun I was having with a Mine Launcher/Banshee Squid gets thrown out the window for a meta counter build which isn't nearly as fun.

This is just how I see it though. The most fun I have on this game is when there is no Meta in the lobby so everyone can focus on "How can I kill these guys through tactics and positioning" rather than "I have to kill these guys faster than they kill me." You want to kill them faster than they kill you all the time, that's how you win, but killing becomes easy with meta. People playing meta are on "easy mode" while everyone else is on "Hard mode."

[Captain Smollett]

The new balance changes coming out should hopefully broaden what is considered meta and vary the loadouts that you see in game.

[Mr. Ace Rimmer]

Except that by reckoning on a quick test last night, some changes have been revoked, leaving certain things as they are now..

[Garou]

People playing meta are on "easy mode" while everyone else is on "Hard mode."

I am not going to continue the topic much longer in this thread, as I already feel I may have opened a can o' worms, however, you are again missing the point of my post.

'Meta' just means that the ship has one of the most effective loadouts for that ship and style. There are non 'meta' builds that are nearly equally effective, in fact I showed one to two of your clan-mates in a Junker that would have made Cake's Sunday rumble chances last longer. Non-'meta' does not mean not effective.

Again, it has far less to do with the ships and far more to do with the crews on those ships. The "Metamidion" as it's come to be known has plenty of counters, as I've seen firsthand against the Gents, the Ducks, the Merry Men, and in countless lobbies.

Don't blame the ship if you can't beat it. Give some credit to the crews aboard that ship. It's hard to swallow your pride and do, but it's the fact of the matter. The crew makes the ship, not vice-versa.

[Garou]

Additionally, on this particular topic (on 'meta' and such), I not be responding to anything else on the topic, however I would be glad to discuss it at length in private with anyone who would care to. I don't want to derail this thread any further than I already (unintentionally) have.

I will be glad to continue discussing the issue of stacking, however I have spoken my mind on the issue of 'meta' and will be leaving it at that from this point onward.

Apologies to the original poster.

[HamsterIV]

The idea is that the match 'labeling' is optional, both in regard to the label itself and whether or not to follow the recommendation. I'm not talking about completely segregating the lobbies, but rather the ability to 'suggest' the level range. The players would then have the option to join or not based on that.

There is nothing stopping you from labeling your game "Suggested Level 6+." I have seen similarly named games in the past. However people outside the level range always find their way in. Either through Quick Join, poor reading skills, or the lack of available games.

I see taking non meta builds as an act of bravado. When I am on a stacked side and I don't want to or can't swap to the other team, I take some funky experimental build as a way of testing myself and my crew. I encourage anyone on a win streak to do the same.

[Captain Smollett]

Actually that sounds intersting, have a game mode (or an agreement) where winning teams have to change ship types after they win and can't chose that ship type again until their opponent beats them.

[Letus]

Actually that sounds intersting, have a game mode (or an agreement) where winning teams have to change ship types after they win and can't chose that ship type again until their opponent beats them.

...what happens if you win with all the ship types?

[QKO]

Actually that sounds intersting, have a game mode (or an agreement) where winning teams have to change ship types after they win and can't chose that ship type again until their opponent beats them.

...what happens if you win with all the ship types?

Then we send the opponents back to the newbie pool!

[Calico Jack]

When I am on a stacked side and I don't want to or can't swap to the other team, I take some funky experimental build as a way of testing myself and my crew. I encourage anyone on a win streak to do the same.

This is something I do too. I usually take the score as a guideline, if the matches are close regardless of the sides then the balance is right for me

[Castus Crios]

I try to read full threads before posting but I think this topic is familiar enough to me to wing it.

Stacking in matches is a right of all players. It has several effects on the lobby in which it is occurring.

1. Inability to win (note that 5-3 or 5-2 matches are possible)
2. Breeding bitterness in randoms
3. Not creating a competitive challenge for competitive players.

Our merit as good players depends on the battles we face but is also dependent on our ability to fly well together (which requires practice). Mentioned earlier was clans "stacking" in order to practice. In these situations I recommend making your purpose clear and asking for "good" players in global to fight against you.

The case against stacking is good overall save the aforementioned caveat. I have had great matches against random players and only at the expense of talking to my friends in party and then doing my best to help the less skilled players in lobby. Either way (stack or not) this game can be fun if all players are actively listening and trying. Good players provide a challenge for the community as well as an opportunity to share advice and knowledge.

So in a nutshell, don't stack if you can't match atleast half of the players (only if they are cooperative) and gain the cooperation of your fellow noobs. As the graphic at the start of the thread said they are our future players!

-CC

[Zenark]

I usually do nothing to avoid stacking, but if my ally ship wants to switch sides, that's totally cool. If I've got a crew I like, I don't care who I'm fighting, stacked for us, stacked for them, as long as I'm playing.

About 70% of the matches I'm in are stacked. Rarely is this intentional, but this is an example of what I see most often.

I join a mostly empty lobby and grab a captain slot. The other team has a level 1-3 pilot with a similar crew, and an empty ship beside them. After a bit, a higher level 6-9 pilot joins in on the other team, sees that his ally is a low level, sees that I'm a higher level, and switches teams to be on my side.

I don't think this captain is doing this to be a dick, he's doing it to win, and I'd do the same thing. If however I'm already in my spot and a low level captain joins my side, I'll stick with him. Everyone wants to fly with higher levels because it increases their chances to win. All levels are guilty of it.

The time I don't see stacking is with multi level clans fighting each other. I'd much rather fly alongside a low level fellow Cake than a high level pilot I don't know.

I use pilots as examples but the same applies to all classes.