Author Topic: Rapid Fire - Left Click  (Read 27788 times)

Offline Eukari

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2013, 10:37:28 pm »
What, really? That's interesting; I assumed it was the same, because I could see it "ticking" when the spanner wasn't falling. I guess I gotta get back to clicking!

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 12:17:08 am »
So can anyone confirm that the click hold rebuild is just as fast as clicking like a madman? Because that's how i tend to do it when i'm engineering.

Offline QKO

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 01:44:40 am »
In my experience rapidly clicking has been slightly faster.

Offline RaptorSystems

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2013, 02:27:36 am »
In the past two Sunday rumbles I have been a main engineer for BFS and have used the click to hold technique that was added in a patch earlier this year.
Just to be clear I haven't used rapid clicking ever during competitions. I wanted to broach this topic on the forum and have some level of transparency before even considering it.

I hadn't considered if it was slower for rebuilding, I'll test this out in my own practice match.

  • Should all weapons have an optional click and hold to fire mode?
  • Is click and hold repairing at threshold of spam click?
  • Does spamming clicks send extra packets?

I would also like to thank every one so far for contributing to what I find both an important and interesting discussion.

Offline ramjamslam

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2013, 10:14:13 am »
I'm playing a game with RaptorSystems right now, everyone on our team is a pilot and I only have a mallet.  You can really tell the difference between click and hold and rapid fire clicking when you are rebuilding components with a mallet 

Offline NikolaiLev

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 01:22:27 pm »
I really wish all weapons fired "full-auto" when you hold down the button, much as how tools were changed to work.

That said, there really should be no difference between holding down the button and rapidly clicking, when it comes to tools.  And when I rapidly click with a weapon, occasionally I will get a "ghost fire" where it doesn't fire, but causes the weapon cooldown.

If there is a difference, it needs to be fixed in the game.

Offline Erheller

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2013, 02:14:47 pm »
Yeah, there's a pretty big difference between holding down the mouse and rapidly clicking the mouse when rebuilding.

Here's a short clip I captured using FRAPS (you can play this in VLC, I have no experience with video editing so I just compressed it). The first rebuild is done by holding down left-click. The second rebuild is done by using an autoclick script.

hzzp://cl.ly/code/1R121y2J1K36 --mildly suspicious link, open at your own risk -CA Queso

If someone wants to do a frame-by-frame comparison or something like that, go ahead.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 04:10:54 pm by Queso »

Offline Erheller

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 04:23:11 pm »
That link isn't dangerous, it's just the way the cloud redirects to a page before linking to the file.   :-[

But here's a different link on Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1albvx9ebisqw74/GoI%20Autoclickies.mp4

Is this less suspicious?

Offline Queso

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2013, 04:50:28 pm »
Yeah that's looking better, thanks.

Offline naufrago

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2013, 08:57:09 pm »
As I mainly play the engineer role I tend to do a lot of clicking.  I'm worried that one day I'll get RSI from all the repetitive clicking at some point and have to stop playing this game. 

To be fair there already is a click and hold function for continuous hits.

I think a lot of people don't realize this because the timing of the rebuild hits don't match up with the animations. Like, if you tap the left mouse button when rebuilding a part, it animates each swing that rebuilds the meter, but if you just hold the button it still rebuilds at the same pace but the spanner/wrench/whatever doesn't match up with the "ticks." At least, that's what it is from what I can tell.

At least for rebuilding it does *not* actually click as fast as a person. If you click and hold it clicks every x amount of milliseconds but the problem is there is no cool down for rebuild. So if you can somehow click once every millisecond you can rebuild the hull in like 10milliseconds (like when two or three engineers all rebuild a hull at the same time...no cool down).

I accidentally let our ship die yesterday experimenting with this. "Wow, this rebuild seems slower... oh my god it definitely is! HURRY HURRY HURR- BOOM" hahaha

Clicking rapidly rebuilds things faster than click-and-holding, but it by no means rebuilds as fast as you can click. If it could, my ships would never die, ya know, since I can click 12 times per second. There's a small cooldown, a little less than a second, before the next tool swing registers.

Offline treseritops

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2013, 11:05:33 pm »
As I mainly play the engineer role I tend to do a lot of clicking.  I'm worried that one day I'll get RSI from all the repetitive clicking at some point and have to stop playing this game. 

To be fair there already is a click and hold function for continuous hits.

I think a lot of people don't realize this because the timing of the rebuild hits don't match up with the animations. Like, if you tap the left mouse button when rebuilding a part, it animates each swing that rebuilds the meter, but if you just hold the button it still rebuilds at the same pace but the spanner/wrench/whatever doesn't match up with the "ticks." At least, that's what it is from what I can tell.

At least for rebuilding it does *not* actually click as fast as a person. If you click and hold it clicks every x amount of milliseconds but the problem is there is no cool down for rebuild. So if you can somehow click once every millisecond you can rebuild the hull in like 10milliseconds (like when two or three engineers all rebuild a hull at the same time...no cool down).

I accidentally let our ship die yesterday experimenting with this. "Wow, this rebuild seems slower... oh my god it definitely is! HURRY HURRY HURR- BOOM" hahaha

Clicking rapidly rebuilds things faster than click-and-holding, but it by no means rebuilds as fast as you can click. If it could, my ships would never die, ya know, since I can click 12 times per second. There's a small cooldown, a little less than a second, before the next tool swing registers.

So by any chance do you know, there would be a cap then where having a double engi vs triple engi on the hull wouldn't actually build any faster, right? Or are you saying a single person has their own cooldown?

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2013, 11:10:59 pm »
The spanner has a 0.75 second pause between successive hits. There is no cooldown on the rebuilds or people themselves, just the tool.

Offline Plasmarobo

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2013, 11:13:32 pm »
I'm pretty sure guns and tools have an internal 'fire rate'.
Sort of like how a semi-automatic gun has mechanical delays which control fire rate. Input devices are only polled so many times per second in most game engines.

So yeah, triple engie will be better most of the time. Unless it's easy enough to rebuild that two engies could do it in the same time frame.

For the record, I'm pretty sure any automation or 'turbo' functions could be considered a cheat. If you've got some medical condition, that's a different story. It's a question of advantage vs disadvantage while discarding skill and 'improvable' attributes. If you work out your clicking finger, well, you deserve to click faster than me.

Edit: Sunderland'd

Offline RaptorSystems

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2013, 03:02:22 pm »
That link isn't dangerous, it's just the way the cloud redirects to a page before linking to the file.   :-[

But here's a different link on Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1albvx9ebisqw74/GoI%20Autoclickies.mp4

Is this less suspicious?
The spanner has a 0.75 second pause between successive hits. There is no cooldown on the rebuilds or people themselves, just the tool.
Yeah, when I was testing this is pretty much what I found too, just haven't taken a video of it.

In regards to click & hold rebuilds not being as fast as rapid clicking rebuilds.
Should this be reported in bugs and game issues, or feedback and suggestions?

I'm pretty sure guns and tools have an internal 'fire rate'.
Sort of like how a semi-automatic gun has mechanical delays which control fire rate. Input devices are only polled so many times per second in most game engines.

So yeah, triple engie will be better most of the time. Unless it's easy enough to rebuild that two engies could do it in the same time frame.

For the record, I'm pretty sure any automation or 'turbo' functions could be considered a cheat. If you've got some medical condition, that's a different story. It's a question of advantage vs disadvantage while discarding skill and 'improvable' attributes. If you work out your clicking finger, well, you deserve to click faster than me.

Edit: Sunderland'd
I sort of understand where you are coming from, but with the logic of "advantage vs disadvantage while discarding skill and 'improvable' attributes". What do you say about people who use a weighted mouse? Are they cheating too.

I know it's not completely comparable because In theory a rapid fire click script is actually more universal due to ironahk being opensource and crossplatform, where as a precision weighted mouse really is a question of investment of the user.

Offline dragonmere

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Re: Rapid Fire - Left Click
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 03:15:09 pm »
A high end mouse, specifically one with an on-the-fly changeable DPI, make a HUGE difference in this game. Any time I have an engineer/gunner hitting 90-99.99% of gat shots DEAD center, I ask what kind of a mouse they have. Almost every single time, it's a Razor or some other comparable high end mouse. It's so important that if you want to be a dedicated chain-gunner on my crew, a high-end mouse is REQUIRED, not preferred. Is this unfair? Hell no. It's what these gamers paid for - an advantage with mouse precision/aiming.