Incentives to Move

[GeneralAmericanQuack]

I just finished showing my roommate a recording of a tournament stream (the 3v3 tournament on Friday). He's a fan of competitive gaming and has a good idea on what makes a game a contender to becoming an esport. He pointed out something which, in hindsight, is an obvious barrier to the esport status like myself and others hope for:

There is no strong incentive to move.

Matches on a competitive level develop a tendency to become long range sniping games with little maneuvering. Both sides sit back and wait for the other to stick its nose out of its hiding spot first. Even I had to admit it was an issue when the stream casters were getting bored and players, myself included, talked back and forth like we were in a chat room as we waited.

I'm not going to try to urge Muse to drop what they're doing on Adventure mode (something I eagerly look forward to) in order to make changes in PvP. What I'm looking to do is put up a thread where the community can brainstorm ideas that would put more emphasis on maneuvering and make the game more fun to watch.

Let's see what we can come up with, my fellow sailors of the skies!

[Echoez]

That's a problem with Deathmatch mainly cause where there is an objective, people are forced to move to it.

The time limit that there is, is just too much if you ask me (2 hours wat), there should be a less forgiving time limit to force moves in that game mode, if the time limit ends with no team reaching the goal, both lose, in order to avoid one team camping after they get one kill, you always need to force people to complete the objective if you want movement, currently there is no such thing hence every match with snipers in it ends up as a boring long range poking match that takes more than an hour each time.

People are lazy, what did you expect? x3

[Serenum]

Simply make King of the Hill and similar modes the one played competitively and avoid TDM. Problem solved, you have your incentive to move.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Most esports are based on reflexes and speed. Which is why I say...they suck and will never been recognized by society as a whole. Guns can be about either but the emphasis is on teamwork and strategy. Tactics play a huge role vs mindless blasting in FPS games. In a way it is like golf. More fun to play than it is to watch, at times.

Thought it was funny on Saturday that casters were wishing there had been some sniping play before teams engaged. Course with 2 teams dropping out and only 2 matches to cast...kind of a question of what the point was. Over too fast.

[Imagine]

Most esports are based on reflexes and speed. Which is why I say...they suck and will never been recognized by society as a whole. Guns can be about either but the emphasis is on teamwork and strategy. Tactics play a huge role vs mindless blasting in FPS games. In a way it is like golf. More fun to play than it is to watch, at times.

Thought it was funny on Saturday that casters were wishing there had been some sniping play before teams engaged. Course with 2 teams dropping out and only 2 matches to cast...kind of a question of what the point was. Over too fast.

Whoah whoah whoah let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I had been settled in to have long sniping matches and was caught off guard with the sudden change in gameplay styles. I did wish the games had taken longer, certainly, but I also wasn't wishing for another couple of like two hour long sniping matches

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Well if Muse fixes a lot of things, sniping matches can start to thin out. The addition of mines coming does bring another factor. Mines can be both defensive and offensive. With the game in it's current state I say it'll only keep encouraging sniping. But some tweaks and adjustments to a few of the ships and cqc vs snipers is very viable again. Mines may play an important role in that if they aren't nerfed into oblivion. Heck I used to do it all the time months ago before Muse wreaked things. Had I had a mine launcher back then, the effectiveness of taking out snipers would have just increased.

[Gambrill]

On some levels its amazingly easy to beat snipers such as paritian rumble, and using dust/clouds to hide yourself to catch them from the side or rear,  of course on other levels its near impossible. if i find myself stuck with no option to do anything but run staight at them its a sticky situation but rull speed ahead and get everyone on repairs until we are close enough and it usually works out well

[RearAdmiralZill]

The reason why I think the "time limit" set by the server itself is plenty is really one thing: tactics.

You start putting short time limits in there, and you get a bunch of "strategies" that revolve around it instead of, well what you saw Friday. You could have a team ahead in kills, and they simply avoid the other team till time runs out. You cut way into the chance for comebacks. And I can only imagine the rage of a tied game, and you both lose? Most of our games were close, and 2 of them were 7-6.

I can agree that I wished some CP maps were in the rotation. You don't have to separate them to have a good tournament either. Both can exist.

[N-Sunderland]

Solution: have a tournament where more than one merc per ship is banned.

[Shinkurex]

Solution: have a tournament where more than one merc per ship is banned.

eh merc/arty..... might take even longer........

[N-Sunderland]

Solution: have a tournament where more than one merc per ship is banned.

eh merc/arty..... might take even longer........

I honestly wouldn't be worried at all about charging a merc/artemis broadside. It's much easier to close distance against than a merc/merc side.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Banning weapons isn't going to solve it really. That would still equate to 2-3 mercs. You of all people should know that popping some engines on incoming boats and then focusing them down would still work.

[N-Sunderland]

That's true, but it would still reduce the effectiveness of sniping. Sniping would do considerably less DPS. Usually when rushing quad mercs the main problem is that they get the edge on armour/hull damage rather than component disables.

[Gambrill]

mercs are amazing for sniping thats true, has anyone tried getting their engies AND gunners to focus on engine repairs while you close the distance and then focus on firing? you'll be surprised how easy it is since the merc turn is quite lumbersome

[RearAdmiralZill]

Well yea, I'd of much rather faced 3 mercs in our final vs 5. Eric is still trying with his 2 shots on "heavy" components to disable rather than 1.

The biggest "problem" is good gunners, as funny as that sounds. With a combined gun-line of merc and flak, you're not charging that successfully. Really you shouldn't either, else sniping is pretty pointless. It takes time to get yourself in a position that you are comfortable to approach enemy teams, much like our final. It took forever to get them near cover we could use too.