1.3 General Speculation

[Chrinus]

Well, we can check the math for viability.. Heavy now loads 45 shots into the Gatling compared to 60 normal(for reference) and 72 greased.

So we can agree, gatling base fires 60 rounds @ 6.25/s leading to 9.6s of fire time while Heavy fires the 45 rounds @ 6.25/s leading to only 7.2s of fire time.

For simplicity's sake, 1 base gatling round = 1 damage. Thus we will apply the 20% modifier from greased as 0.8 damage.

Let's get the total damage based off normal for greased: 72*0.8=57.6
Multiply up the fire rate (+60%): 6.25*1.6=10/s
Apply the new fire rate to the new clip size(72): 72/10=7.2s of fire time

So to compare: Heavy deals 45 damage in the same time Greased deals 57.6 damage. That's a 12.6 (let's just say 12) damage difference per clip.

So ideally, as long as you can expect to land at least 61 of those 72 shots, Greased will outperform a full unload of heavy. Allowing an 85% accuracy rate to outperform the 100% accuracy rate of heavy. Obviously this is dependent upon gunner skill, but this is certainly something to take into account as perfect accuracy is a double-edged sword. Being a lasergun means any miss will lead to multiple misses as you reacquire target - sometimes a spread is a good thing.

[N-Sunderland]

Yup, and there's the problem. Greased doesn't have an 85% hit rate. Ships like the Junker have such a small hull profile and such a high density of components that it's literally impossible to land enough hits. Try it out. You're not going to be getting 85% in unless the enemy ship is sitting a few metres away from your gun.

[-Muse- Cullen]

So ideally, as long as you can expect to land at least 61 of those 72 shots, Greased will outperform a full unload of heavy. Allowing an 85% accuracy rate to outperform the 100% accuracy rate of heavy. Obviously this is dependent upon gunner skill,

Greased doesn't have an 85% hit rate. Ships like the Junker have such a small hull profile and such a high density of components that it's literally impossible to land enough hits.

But what about hitting a Galleon, or any other ship with a larger profile? The exception seems to be the sleek design of the Junker, but not the rest. And, like Chrinus' conclusion- it depends on Gunner skill, and if he can use it, Greased will outperform a full unload of heavy.

[Echoez]

Yup, and there's the problem. Greased doesn't have an 85% hit rate. Ships like the Junker have such a small hull profile and such a high density of components that it's literally impossible to land enough hits. Try it out. You're not going to be getting 85% in unless the enemy ship is sitting a few metres away from your gun.

Optimaly, you want to use Greased against ships that have a larger profile than the Junker outside of point blank range, but that is something you just have to do, doesn't change the maths, the ship is just so damn small, still, the increased DPS is reason enough to close distance now instead of just standing there in mid range, cause now the Gatling will require an 98% hit rate to actually strip armour even on light ships and you wouldn't strip a Junker's armour in one go of Heavy clip anyway, the Junker has 700 armour, the Gatling with 45 bullets, assuming perfect accuracy, will deal 765 armour damage, even if their engineers are total nutjobs, they will get a Mallet stroke in there upping the total damage you have to deal to 950. So you won't be taking out their armor anyway with Heavy.

Which means 3 things:

Using the ship with the lowest profile of them all isn't realy valid.
Using a ship whose armour you can't even drop in one go with Heavy clip isn't realy valid either.
Junker indirectly buffed. lol.

[RearAdmiralZill]

I think that's just the nature of a Junker though. If you manage to get it's hull armor down, and don't kill it, you failed somewhere. It's kinda funny when people insist of focusing on the junker's hardest point to hit.

[Zenark]

From what I've seen, the decrease in clip size for Heavy Clip is not too bad. It doesn't nerf the Gatling to the point of making it weak, it's still the ultimate armor striper. For other weapons, like the Caronade having 4 shots rather than 5,it's also not TOO bad of a change. Those four shots can still annihilate a balloon. Haven't checked the Hwacha, but it can't be too bad.

This'll at least make it viable to use other ammo types more.

[Chrinus]

I think that's just the nature of a Junker though. If you manage to get it's hull armor down, and don't kill it, you failed somewhere. It's kinda funny when people insist of focusing on the junker's hardest point to hit.

Bring a heavy carronade and watch junkers lose armor with record speed! Last night Echo and I wrecked a junker so quick our ally only really had to throw explosive at it (we had a blenderfish).. dead before they even knew what happened.

[Echoez]

I think that's just the nature of a Junker though. If you manage to get it's hull armor down, and don't kill it, you failed somewhere. It's kinda funny when people insist of focusing on the junker's hardest point to hit.

Bring a heavy carronade and watch junkers lose armor with record speed! Last night Echo and I wrecked a junker so quick our ally only really had to throw explosive at it (we had a blenderfish).. dead before they even knew what happened.

Shh.. don't spread the secret sorceries I use.

[N-Sunderland]

On the subject of the gat...

Let's compare greased rounds to the new heavy.

Greased: 10 rounds per second, 13.6 damage per round
DPS: 136
Per clip: 979.2

Heavy: 6.25 rounds per second, 17 damage per round
DPS: 106.25
Per clip: 765

Ok, so that's a pretty big difference.

Now, buff hammer to the rescue.

Buffed heavy: 6.25 rounds per second, 20.4 damage per round
DPS: 127.5
Per clip: 918


Is the little bit of extra damage from greased worth it, considering that you can get a vastly more accurate buffed heavy?

[Zenark]

Sunderland loves his buff hammer. You could also buff with Greased ammo to do some serious damage, though you really wouldn't have to. I agree that a buffed Heavy Clip would be better than just Greased, but ships won't always have a buff hammer.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Now show us buffed greased.

[Echoez]

It all depents, buff will last for a single clip, unless you clear up the engagement, you won't have enough time to both shoot and buff the gatling again, which will leave you with crippled damage unless everything goes according to plan.

At least that's how I see it. Remember pin point accuracy isn't always a good thing, the slightest turn will be throwing even the best gunner's aim off and with the lower clip capacity, every shot you miss counts a lot more than before.

[N-Sunderland]

Buffed greased would suffer from the same issues as normal greased, and it'd be awkward to pull off. You'd need an engineer to buff the gat, then run over to their own gun. It might work on anti-Galleon Pyra builds, but that's about it.

And Echo, your argument would be perfectly valid if it wasn't wrong The gun buff lasts 20 seconds. 7.2 second clip, plus a five-second reload. The buff lasts two clips. In addition, the two reloads from those clips add up to 10 seconds. It takes 6 seconds to buff a gun.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Are you still assuming a 3 engineer build? If so, this is all going to get stupidly confusing again.

You silly people.

[N-Sunderland]

I'm assuming a three-engineer build if you choose a buff hammer over greased.

I'm assuming a two engi, one gunner build if greased is being used.