Author Topic: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling  (Read 9023 times)

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 05:00:50 pm »
Every game has its flaws and gaps in logic.

Why don't the Seals in CoD just bring in a tank from the beginning and wipe the floor with the other team?

Why does the Australium elevator in TF2 move so slowly?

Why doesn't Conner die from falling from so high in Assassin's Creed, even if he does land in a bail of hay?

There are a million and a half "If video games were real" videos on YouTube, and they are fairly entertaining. The overlying joke is, if video games followed the rules in real life, they would be stupid and no fun.


When it comes down to it, it's a game.
And a game that's no fun has no point in being played.


HOWEVER, that doesn't mean your ideas are broken.
It just needs a little (here comes that word) balancing.

Anyone remember Star Wars: Battlefront 2?
Really? Just me?
Okay.
Well, there was a class in that game called the "Clone Commander." He had a heavy gatling gun that could rip through the enemy droids like nobody's business.
However, this gun had downsides.
One, it was HUGELY inaccurate, only able to kill things from the sheer output of bullets.
Two, it took a while to spin up. Not Heavy's gun from TF2 spin up, where you can push a button to get it ready.
This gun's firing button and spin-up button were one in the same, causing you to waste ammo and give away your position if you tried to spin it up early.

If we were to implement a Heavy Gatling Gun here, it would have to be inaccurate (so it couldn't be a sniper with the Heavy Flak) and take about 5 seconds or so to spin up (so surprise attacks would be viable to take them down).

That's just my take on things.

Offline Echoez

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2013, 05:14:23 pm »
I think the best you could put as a heavier version of the gatling is something akin to the WWII Anti-Air guns, so not realy a gatling and it would need a long reload time, it would start firing slowly and then pick up the pace and it would have to be balanced around heavy clip as well cause we all know everyone brings that and how the Gatling became a raygun with bullets. It could also use the same shells the Mercury does with an arming time, so if you are too close the 'explosive' rounds don't go off so you lose a crap top of damage. And since it would be raycast, lesmok, heatsink and the like wouldn't work on it, so no arming range changes.

Offline -Muse- Cullen

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2013, 05:23:48 pm »
Gatling guns are so effective as is- adding a medium Gatling wouldn't be fun... I believe that no one would ever have armor in a match that contains one. If it was made extremely inaccurate or had spin up time... then there'd just be ramming Goldfish that go point blank to blast them down. I think the topic shouldn't be about another Gatling... but instead, about another, unique piercing weapon that doesn't replicate another gun's shooting style.

Offline Zenark

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 05:28:57 pm »
I heard someone say ballista earlier.
A sort of medium gun harpoon without a rope. Kinda hard to aim, one shot before reload, maybe even have some mass to it so the giant bolt gives a little push.

Offline Echoez

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 05:29:12 pm »
Gatling guns are so effective as is- adding a medium Gatling wouldn't be fun... I believe that no one would ever have armor in a match that contains one. If it was made extremely inaccurate or had spin up time... then there'd just be ramming Goldfish that go point blank to blast them down. I think the topic shouldn't be about another Gatling... but instead, about another, unique piercing weapon that doesn't replicate another gun's shooting style.

I was just putting an idea out there, I don't realy want an other raygun armor stripper tbh, I just like theorycrafting x3

On that note, you have already established that Piercing = Bullets with the Mercury and the Gatling and if not that, then a Harpoon, but the Harpoon is not made to actually deal out punishment.

Having a single shot Heavy Mercury, despite looking and being awesome, would probably be as bad as a heavy Gatling and if you don't have that, then what? A Ballista? Same thing as the giant Mercury tbh, you just launch a giant arrow instead of a shell. Never mind the sillyness that Lochnagar would be on such a gun. It would need to be incredibly difficult to shoot and heavily penalized for close range engagement, to a point of, why even include it?


Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2013, 05:32:45 pm »
How about a rail gun that projects a shot instantaneously but has a 2 second delay between pulling the trigger and shooting. To make the gun harder to use the gun could be locked (as in Locknigar locked) during those two seconds.

Offline Zenark

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 05:36:50 pm »
A mercury with Loch is already a one shot armor destroyer, such a ballista with Loch would do no more damage than the field gun.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:47 pm »
A long time ago I proposed a heavy harpoon gun which uses the harpoon rope to guide a cart full of bombs from one ship to the other. As a counter the engineers could break off the harpoon before the bomb cart arrived. The devs told me that they had considered harpoon removal as an extra engineering task but felt it would complicate the game too much.

Offline Echoez

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 05:44:48 pm »
How about a rail gun that projects a shot instantaneously but has a 2 second delay between pulling the trigger and shooting. To make the gun harder to use the gun could be locked (as in Locknigar locked) during those two seconds.

That sounds interesting, I like it, but then comes the next question, how much damage does it do?

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2013, 06:15:02 pm »
Basically need a Pyramidion gun. Fire mini Pyras at ships that ram into them and knock them off course.

Twin Gat would work but it would have to be a static mount gun. Think water world where that guy is in the middle and is just shooting one direction and eventually gets pulled into allies. The ship moves and thats how the gats move.

Another option since Medium Flak is useless and doesn't seem to ever be returned to it's former glory, introduce quad barrel light flak. Double reload time, but double ammo. Thing would be a ship killer combined with even a small gat. Maybe slow down fire rate to compensate.

Or, combine the quad light flak idea into a revolver barrel cannon. Has a revolver drum clip but one long barrel. Makes the flak shells go further but they still do light flak dmg. So you don't have guys crying about it being like the merc.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2013, 06:20:32 pm »
That sounds interesting, I like it, but then comes the next question, how much damage does it do?

That should be determined after rigorous play testing, not just made up by some guy on the forum. I am thinking 2x merc per shot. With a reload slightly longer than a merc, maybe remove the shatter. Also the length of the delay between triggering and shooting is subject to change.

Actually what if the weapon were to charge. The longer the gunner held down the trigger  the more damage the gun would do until it overcharges and forces a reload without discharge. It would defiantly make the gunner game interesting.

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2013, 06:41:06 pm »
That sounds interesting, I like it, but then comes the next question, how much damage does it do?

That should be determined after rigorous play testing, not just made up by some guy on the forum. I am thinking 2x merc per shot. With a reload slightly longer than a merc, maybe remove the shatter. Also the length of the delay between triggering and shooting is subject to change.

Actually what if the weapon were to charge. The longer the gunner held down the trigger  the more damage the gun would do until it overcharges and forces a reload without discharge. It would defiantly make the gunner game interesting.

But with no indication of a charge level, just the shuddering and pulsing of the weapon becoming more and more violent until either the shot is released or the weapon initiates emergency cooldown (longer than reload. Used as a deterrent to fully-charging every shot).

Offline Echoez

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2013, 06:45:56 pm »
Basically need a Pyramidion gun. Fire mini Pyras at ships that ram into them and knock them off course.

Salutations for almost knocking me off my chair, this is hilarious.

Offline Seamus S

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2013, 09:59:29 pm »
If the best argument against doing something simple and logical is "Because, um...balance" Then there are larger problems in play.
Sorry, but if you're unable to accept game balance as something that needs to happen in said games because it's not how you would do thing in real life, then you should probably re-examine your point of view on games in general.

Please go back and read my post cause you missed the point. The point isn't what would I do in real life. It's what would I do in the guns of Icarus world, operating under the constraints of that world's accepted behaviors. For all the discussion I've seen here, I haven't seen a single reason given why an even marginally clever crew wouldn't try to make something like a double gat happen IN THIS GAME WORLD.

Aside from that, I think the arguments that it would be OP are overstated. Sure, it would be dangerous, but would a double gat on the front of a goldfish be any more dangerous than two front gats on a pyramidon? Which is worse on a spire, a gat, heavy flak combo, or a double gat, light flak combo? Personally, I'd still have to give it to a well timed gat heavy flak combo. More time to destroy the armor, but less chance of fixing it before the armor comes back up. Yes, a double gat and heavy flak combo on a galleon would be terrifying, but anyone who stands at medium to close range on a galleon's broadside has a death wish already. Of course, the only way to know would be to try he guns and see how they work in the game. Personally, I'd love he chance to play wit hem and see.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Hellmouth double flamer, Hurricane double Gatling
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2013, 11:22:43 pm »
Of course, the only way to know would be to try he guns and see how they work in the game. Personally, I'd love he chance to play wit hem and see.

That is awkm's (Eric's) job. Well that and listening to us complain to him about how he didn't do it right. I am sure the devs have tried many of the permutations you have discussed. If they haven't, they probably will do so after they read your post. Just don't expect them to release a new build to the public if the ideas don't match their vision for the game.