Author Topic: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw  (Read 9730 times)

Offline JaceBoojah

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Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« on: June 17, 2013, 01:26:03 pm »
Moonshine vs Kerosene.

First off moonshine cannot be left on forever.  It is impossible to keep the engines alive.  If you want to keep your ship at top speed with moonshine you must use it in bursts. you can tap back and forth between moonshine and nothing. This takes practice but it is worth it.

There seems to be a max possible speed (continuously) for a pyramidian I say is 100%.
Kerosene and kerosene with buffed engines both fly at this max speed (continuously).
moonshine alone can do about 86% but with buffed engines it can do 100%

Percentage of the max possible sustainable travel speed in a straight line on a pyramidian.
Kerosene               100%
Kerosene buffed     100%
Moonshine              86%
Moonshine Buffed  100%
Normal                   61%

Moonshine has an ability way beyond speed. It can stop you from turning.  This has some very important uses:
When making a 180 to face a battle or just turning around you can hit moonshine for half a second as soon as you are facing the way you want and it will stop the ship dead.

When ramming or getting rammed if you have moonshine on at the time of impact your ship will not turn at all.

If you see that you are going to barley hit an obstacle use moonshine and you will not be spun off course.


Kerosene has the ability to help you turn

Kerosene vs Phoenix claw

Turning power
Normal  67%
Kerosene 79%
Phoenix Claw 100%

Even while both at full speed then using revers to do a 180 kerosene has 79% of the Phoenix Claw's turning speed.
This still means Kerosene is a viable replacement for Phoenix Claw.


Different ships have different needs. the less maneuverable a ship is the more it would need moonshine + Phenix claw.  If a ship is already maneuverable than kerosene is all you need.

This is my suggestion for pilots tools on these ships

Galleon        Moonshine + Phoenix Claw + escape tool
Pyramidion   Moonshine + Phoenix Claw + escape tool
Goldfish       Moonshine + Phoenix Claw + escape tool
Spire            Kerosene  +  escape tool  +  escape tool
Junker          Kerosene  +  escape tool  +  escape tool
Squid           Kerosene  +  escape tool  +  escape tool

Any tool that aren't these 3 I consider their main purpose is to escape when you are going to die.

Which of these 3 tools do you use on each of your ships?

Offline Zenark

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 01:48:58 pm »
I've only used Moonshine as a last second anti turn tool for a ram. Stopping from a sharp turn just takes practice without having to bring moonshine. Kerosene seemed to be helpful fire both map movement and maneuverability in battle. Using moonshine is risky thanks to its high engine damage.

I almost always use kerosene and Phoenix claw on all of my ships with either tar, hydrogen, vent, or rarely impact bumpers if I'm feeling ram-y.

Offline JaceBoojah

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 02:01:33 pm »
I forgot about impact bumpers.  not an escape tool I guess. I will never use it.

Offline dragonmere

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2013, 02:11:22 pm »
The stats for kerosene lists a +50% Angular Drag penalty, but obviously this is not the case in actual usage. Is this a typo? Should it be -50% Angular Drag? Or is this a bug with kerosene? I know it would change a lot of pilots loadout if kerosene actually made it harder to turn, if that is the intended effect. It would pretty much force a  Kerosene (speed) Phoenix Claw (turn) and Moonshine (stability) loadout to have a fully maneuverable ship, instead of currently being able to effectively forgo claw for kerosene as your turning tool.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2013, 02:28:42 pm »
I asked awhile ago and was told kerosene was working right, so I believe it's a typo.

Offline Surette

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 03:17:37 pm »
Traditionally I've taken moonshine and phoenix claw, but I've since switched over to moonshine and kerosene, since kerosene is a viable replacement for claw as well as giving me the helpful speed boost. The third slot varies, usually chute vent.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 03:23:07 pm »
I only run kerosene out of those three (and moonshine too on my ramming build). Having tar barrel and chute vent benefits me a lot more than getting a little bit of extra manoeuvrability.

Offline Plasmarobo

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 08:58:51 am »
Yeah, Kerosene has replaced Phoenix claw. I just throw the engines in reverse to get a little bit of negative whatever.
I love Chute Vent, but I want to see Hydrogen become useful again. I loved hanging out at the top of the map while everyone repairs.

I'm still mixed on Tar. I generally only take it when I don't really care about winning, and just want to break other people's things.

Offline -Muse- Cullen

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 05:17:33 pm »
I'm too attached to using Phoenix Claw- keeping my guns on the enemy is too important to have a substitute. I only use Kerosene if I know I need to move around quickly... and I only take Moonshine in conjunction with Impact Bumpers.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 09:53:42 pm »
The dmg cost with kerosene being 10 vs 13 on claw...plus gaining the speed boost in straight charges completely overrule any need for claw. If you are in a situation where you absolutely need that tiny % extra from claw then you really shouldn't have gotten yourself in that position. Or better yet, use a vertical lift or drop tool to buy time as long as they don't have gats on you. I think Muse needs to rework Gat a little. It looks so far down the barrels go through the deck under it.

Tar has it's uses but I often feel it isn't as dangerous partially because it doesn't seem to tick as hard unless there is a lot in one spot. When pilots barrel through tar with speed tools and aren't afraid of it then something is wrong there. Used to barely touch a cloud and then immediately have to evade or risk losing everything.

Need a lot of stuff reverted to 1.1. 1.2 just seems like Muse saw all the skilled fliers pwning noobs over and over and decided to make flying as restrictive and boring as possible so noobs could feel better about only losing 5-1 instead of 5-0. Or in other words...5yr old soccer where everyone gets a prize!

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 02:23:43 am »
I think Kerosene is a bit OP honestly.  No pilot tool should be able to substitute 2.

Offline Phores

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 11:16:16 am »
I'd argue Moonshine use is OP when usable as a ship stabiliser, it should only prevent voluntary turning, getting rammed and terrain should still screw you over.

Offline Zenark

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2013, 11:37:03 am »
Here's a question... Does Kerosene/moonshine/Phoenix claw affect the ship as a whole, or does the buff work on each individual engine? I know the damage affects the engines, but what about the speed boost? I would imagine a Squid using Kerosene should be able outrun a Pyramidion using the same, but that's not the case and a Pyra can easily keep up with a Squid.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2013, 04:57:12 pm »
I'd argue Moonshine use is OP when usable as a ship stabiliser, it should only prevent voluntary turning, getting rammed and terrain should still screw you over.

Considering Kerosine can get you across the map faster than moonshine, the added control moonshine gives you balances kerosine's turning and better long haul speed. There is nothing to stop you opponents from carrying moon shine to counteract the torque a ram imparts.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Kerosene vs Moonshine vs Phoenix Claw
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2013, 05:54:40 pm »
Here's a question... Does Kerosene/moonshine/Phoenix claw affect the ship as a whole, or does the buff work on each individual engine? I know the damage affects the engines, but what about the speed boost? I would imagine a Squid using Kerosene should be able outrun a Pyramidion using the same, but that's not the case and a Pyra can easily keep up with a Squid.

I imagine what is happening is Squid has some form of hard cap on it's speed, even when under kerosene, which shouldn't be there. Why Pyras and Goldfish can keep up with them under kerosene. Heck Goldfish can outrun a Squid under the same circumstances.