Author Topic: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it  (Read 11358 times)

Offline evodoc

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Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« on: June 02, 2013, 08:48:23 am »
Hello everyone!

My opinion is that the most annoying thing about the game is the human factor (yeah, welcome to multiplayer I guess...): the captains leaving it's crew. While these cases might be not always ragequits, but mostly it seems so given the timing of it. Nevertheless, this usually starts a chain reaction ending up with an empty, surrendered ship. This sucks, especially if you are serving on the same team's other ship with a fair crew and as an opponent it takes aways the sweet taste of victory, leaving a "bitter" feeling instead. I think something has to be done.

But the question is: what can be done about it?

I would divide this matter into two things:

What should happen to these captains?

I guess some punishments could be given to those captains after leaving their crew for X times. Penalties such as: deranking and/or temporarily locking out of the pilot/captain role. Deranking could be countered as getting thumbs up Y times in the same role, while the temporary lock out could be countered as getting Y thumbs up as serving as a crew member using other roles.
I already see the responses before I post this, that why should people be punished for quitting, maybe his/her crew sucked, maybe he/she had to do something IRL, it's just a game, his/her internet went down and such...
But what I think is:
1. He/She who takes the role of a captain knows (or should know) that this role is about responsibilty, and he/she also knows (or should know) in advance that his/her crew MIGHT suck, and he/she also knows (or should know) that he/she leaving the game means that the crew is doomed almost for sure. If you don't agree with these you should not be a captain.
2. About the argument that it's just a game: yes, it is a game, a teamplay oriented game which can be completely ruined with captains leaving.
3. The punishment is about notorious quitters, not occasional "justifiable" cases.
4. The punishments are not too harsh and neither final but symbolic and can be easily countered.

Now the other thing which might be more important:

What should happen to those who are left?

I think there should be a function that a member of the abandoned crew is able to completely take over the pilot AND captain roles. We know that other crew members can also fly the ship, but without the right gear and the role's functions, it's like Icarus' flying with his melting wings right before his death.

I know that my suggestions would be not complete solutions but might help somewhat, and it's also open for discussion for other opinions and suggestions.

So what do YOU think?

Offline Linen

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 09:15:59 am »
I don't see Muse ever implementing any sort of punishing feature. It's not their style. They're very community spirited and side way toward positive reinforcement.

I'm not saying that captain quitters don't suck. They do, for both sides. I'm just saying there are nicer ways of doing this.

You'll eventually start to recognise and friend some trustworthy people. This is what the commendation system could be good for if you could see people you've already commended outside of the victory splash. (Honestly as it is the only purpose it has is for new achievements but it's being developed further if I remember correctly.)

Also, you can change your class mid game. You just have to abandon, switch, and manually join back into the lobby.

Offline Moo

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 09:19:11 am »
Yes, it can be a problem. Generally higher-level captains are less likely to do it (they'd find it hard to get their levels if they didn't finish matches), but that isn't a guarantee. There are good low-level captains and bad high-level ones.
When I've played a couple of matches or so with a good captain, I add them as friend. Then I can see easily who I can trust to not ragequit, without having to remember a lot of names. It also means finding games is easier, as even if their crew is full, they are likely to be playing with other captains they know, who would also hopefully be less likely to quit.

Maybe instead of "punishments", it could simply show, in the player-info-popup, something like "Left matches x times during last two weeks", which would let the prospective crew member decide for themselves if they want to risk it. Leaving temporarily and then rejoining before the match ends shouldn't count for that. Perhaps if it goes above a certain level, they should be looked into by the devs/CAs...

Offline evodoc

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 09:49:00 am »
Also, you can change your class mid game. You just have to abandon, switch, and manually join back into the lobby.

Well I never thought about that. It's sounds too fiddly that's why I was suggesting an easier method. And also, I don't see this method being used. People leaving the match are leaving it for good.

You'll eventually start to recognise and friend some trustworthy people. This is what the commendation system could be good for if you could see people you've already commended outside of the victory splash. (Honestly as it is the only purpose it has is for new achievements but it's being developed further if I remember correctly.)

Yeah, this might be a good idea to change it this way. Right now everyone is just spamming the thumbs up at the end of the match.

Maybe instead of "punishments", it could simply show, in the player-info-popup, something like "Left matches x times during last two weeks", which would let the prospective crew member decide for themselves if they want to risk it. Leaving temporarily and then rejoining before the match ends shouldn't count for that.  Perhaps if it goes above a certain level, they should be looked into by the devs/CAs...

Well, this might help somewhat too.


Offline Moo

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2013, 09:52:07 am »
It's actually easy to rejoin a match, there's a button shown on the title screen (not the match list) for a time after leaving a match in progress.

Offline evodoc

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2013, 09:52:40 am »
It's actually easy to rejoin a match, there's a button shown on the title screen (not the match list) for a time after leaving a match in progress.

Yeah, but that does not allow changing roles as far as I know.

Offline Linen

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2013, 09:57:25 am »
Yeah changing roles is a pain in the butt and there's no way to know how to do it unless you're either told by someone who knows or you do it accidentally/by experimenting. It's pretty much just a workaround I threw out there if you ever wanted to grab that vacant pilot spot in the middle of a match.

Offline dragonmere

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2013, 11:25:07 am »
I absolutely hate opponents leaving. It is against the nature of this game. There is no way to improve without getting experience against captains and crews who are much better than you.

How about, instead of a contrived punishment, there was just a waiting period after quitting? I don't think it would be out of character for Muse to put a LARGE cooldown on joining any OTHER match after you quit a match in progress. If you had to wait a full five or so minutes after leaving an active game before you could find a new match, you would be slightly less likely to quit a match just because you "don't like it". Heck, if it's so bad a match that you feel like quitting, the game will probably be over in less than five minutes.

This, in theory, wouldn't punish players who actually had to leave or players who got booted due to connection issues, etc. while making it highly less attractive an option to immature players. In fact, this would even provide some feedback to new players that the behavior is heavily frowned upon.

I actually think there should be some slight incentive to stay in ONE room for multiple matches. Captains deciding they don't want to fly against you, after the match is over, is a slight problem when you get past level ~6. Killing lobbies becomes a serious problem if you happen to find a crew that works well with you. A 5-0 victory far more often results in a 3/4 empty lobby than an increase in effort and strategy from the enemy team. This would also make the game flow much quicker and organically. Maybe a new misc. achievement? Persistence? "play xx matches without switching lobby"?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 11:30:01 am by dragonmere »

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2013, 01:13:40 pm »
I love the persistence achievement idea. It has been so weird as I got plenty of 5-0s as a low level pilot and no one leaving, but now as a level 8 pilot, suddenly you win one game and suddenly everyone just leaves!

Offline Echoez

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2013, 02:05:50 pm »
I'm still only a level 4 captain, soon to be 5 and I got to say that I notice that even from now, many enemy pilots will leave mid game if they are doing bad without even trying to turn the game around and then the lobby will empty almost completely.

There should realy be something to prevent this from happening as it is realy frustrating for both the winning team and even more so for the lonely captain left behind by their teammate (or more depending on how many ships are in the game). Pilots, please be mindful of your teammate as well which you are leaving behind.

Offline Mkah Mvet

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2013, 03:36:43 pm »
Not that I'm defending this behavior, but I had posted here a thread about matchmaking.  Wouldn't having more evenly balanced matches to begin with reduce the number of match dropping?  Especially if win/losses were taken into account, and the results of a match a player dropped from still affected their stats?  Some people will ragequit because...  well...  they just suck soo hard.  But at least if the match was more fun and balanced to begin with, to where people tend to feel they have a chance, it should reduce it.

Oh, and +1 to getting replacement captains/pilots.  Maybe a vote system?  Especially in a legitimate disconnect, a team should still have a captain/pilot.

Offline Keon

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 10:39:36 pm »
I think if your captain leaves there should be a big sign at the middle of the screen "YOUR SHIP HAS NO CAPTAIN! PRESS I TO TAKE CONTROL!" Pressing I would open a crew slot, stick you in captain slot as pilot.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 11:38:22 pm »
One of the big problems is new captains taking an experimental build out, discovering it sucks and abandoning it (with their crew) to work on the next iteration of their personal meta game. Even if one of their crew mans up or another pilot joins the game,  they are on a ship with a lousy setup. I have said many unkind words about people who abandon me on a harpoon junker.

A possible solution for this is to allow mid game ship and class changes. This will make is less likely for people trying out ship loadouts to abandon a match if their loadout is crap. Also any joining captain or upgraded crew can be flying a proper ship after their next death. I would also like this feature for games where I take a support build out only to discover my ally can't be supported.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 11:46:30 pm »
Hamster,

I've mused about some of those ideas before, changing class and ship loadout in game; but that sort of drastic change, while doing really well to solve some of the problems discussed just couldn't easily be balanced.  That and I think it would also detract a lot from the experience to have to fight a different Junker every time you killed it.

It would be interesting if the captain left you could take over his spot and skill sets and if he came back you reverted.

That being said people just need to grow up and stop ragequitting if they're losing.  2v2's only go up to 5 and are over quickly if you're getting stomped.  If you really can't tolerate the match any longer due to how bad you're getting beat down, confer with your teammate and surrender to your superior enemy.

Poor sportsmenship is bad enough, but ruining the experience of 15 other people because your ego can't handle the sensation of being defeated for another 4 minutes is absurd.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Ragequitting pilot captains and what to do about it
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2013, 03:19:39 am »
I don' think it would detract from the experience at all if an enemy has the option to respawn as a different ship every time it dies. In fact it would lead to less one sided matches since the loosing team would not be forced to stick with the same ship configuration for the duration of the map.

Many of the decisions that win or loose GOI games are made in the lobby. For experienced players this is not a problem since we know what the most of right decisions are. New players on the other hand don't have the space to experiment and learn since their poor lobby decisions carry for the rest of the match.

I can see how it would be easier to learn the meta by trying out a ship, learning it sucks in the first engagement, quitting, and trying a new ship in a new lobby. It is an A-hole thing to do to your crew and the server. However game mechanic wise it is the fastest way to test many builds under live fire conditions. Providing an alternate mechanic for testing multiple builds in a single game hopefully would make learning easier.

As for my poor sportsman ship and ego, well you got me there. If I can't be winning with the best crew and ship there isn't really much point in playing. I wouldn't be caught dead jumping to the loosing team to flying with level 1's and 2's because I like teaching.