Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Narayan on January 25, 2017, 10:46:04 am
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Muse I'm frustrated with you, not at the noobs anymore or the trolls. Not at the unbalanced lobbies or the lack of players and I'm fairly sure I'm not alone. This may earn me a ban but here goes.
lol@muse for thinking alliance is the future, no one is gonna log as many hours in that game as skirmish, I would be surprised if someone plays more than 100hrs.
lol@muse for no votekick you hav literally ruined thousands of matches, raged vets, and made people quit the game.
lol@muse for loving Jedi sooo much even tho all of us who actually play the game have known what he's been up too for months.
lol@muse for looking like you just dont give a crap anymore about quality just look at this alliance costumes.
lol@muse for your ca's that don't log on and train and your mods that are never around when you need them.
lol@muse for punishing vets and not noobs and smurfs.
lol@muse for no new ships or guns in skirmish for years, oh yea and skyball.
lol@muse for selling all those games and no one is online, and still not figuring out your doing something wrong.
lol@muse for you attempt to stop match stacking that doesn't work even a little.
lol@muse for not respecting the opinions of the people keeping your 5 year old game alive.
lol@muse for not playing your own game.
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Thank you muse for a great game.
Thank You Muse for doing your best, even when there are others trying to bring you down
Thank you Muse for attempting to revitalize the player base and fulfill your kickstarter campaign
Thank you Muse for the great memories I have made
Thank you for tolerance with veterans and newbs alike
Biggest of all thank you for the spire, the munker, and your continued work to help create a great community.
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Have a salute, Zabinzu. Wish I could give two.
Muse definitely, definitely has room for improvement, and definitely needs to get it's act together, but they are responsible for a fantastic game. They are trying, desperately so, even if they're doing it incorrectly.
Bad prioritization is the issue, I think. Just really, really bad prioritization and biting off much more than they can chew. Adventure mode was the biggest example of this. They are small, very, very small. Tiny. And they wanted to make a full MMO. Big, big steps for such a small company. Way too big, honestly, from the small place they had been with GoI.
Alliance is a difference model. It's too big for just a DLC. Just a content patch. They stepped too far for what they had, and now they're on shaky ground. I want Alliance to succeed... but I seriously, seriously think they should have taken much smaller steps, reutilize old maps and simply add some new assets in order to give th PvE feel. Slowly tease in the PvE elements so as to teach newer players, as well as build anticipation for a much larger release.
Alliance should have been released as, basically, a new game from Muse. Not a DLC. A massive, massive content update, pooling their resources so as to build it properly. The DLC they released should have been much smaller and more MOBA focused.
Just my two cents... but Muse isn't the awful, cold, distant overlords some people think. They're just small and ambitious, while being bad at focusing on what they should.
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Zabinzu and Naoura summed it up pretty well, so there's no need to add my two bits.
Thanks for making this game. I'm just upset that I didn't know about it sooner.
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@zabinzu: You last logged in 61 days ago lol so you probably aren't as affected by a lot of the stuff I mentioned as an active player would be, and for someone who loves the game so much you should drop by more. Or did you just get tired of playing it cause no new ships ,guns, or maps?
@Naoura: I'm not saying muse is cold hearted, I'm saying they are mismanaged and that is hurting the game badly, which you seem to agree with.
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Guess I need to be more active then, perhaps I'll play a game tonight
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I mean I'm just saying for someone who posts this giant I love muse post and then it turns out you don't even play the game anymore. Why did you stop playing? What made you not have any desire to log in for 2 months if the game and muse are so amazing? Something made you get tired of playing this game and that's the point of my thread, the fact that you haven't played in 2 minutes maths proves the point.
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@Narayan I agree with the fact that it's been managed badly. I just disagree with the way you go about it.
Muse isn't a joke, and they're not incompetent. They've just made bad calls and bad moves. Skyball was an attempt, but one that didn't pan out because of some mis-steps. VIP is one that they've thankfully, fixed, and fixed properly, honestly.
They're currently trying to work with the community on ship changes. The spire changes were disasterous, but they were a move in a better direction. Better than stagnancy, at the very least.
The biggest issue I see from Muse is ambition. Adventure mode wouldn't have been a DLC, and they shouldn't have tried making it that way. Not in the slightest. Alliance suffers from the same fate; too much, too fast. From that part alone, Skirmish has suffered.
I'll agree with a lack of solid direction, but I am against being as you are with it.
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Ok you disagree with how I say it but not what I say, I can accept that. You haven't had any problems with trolls? You don't feel like muse doesn't listen to the community? Because I think they don't listen and that's why I'm changing my tone in the hopes that they will hear, and don't say they don't read the forums cause they got in here quick as shit to lock sparkles thread. Oh and mismanagement is incompetence.
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1: I've dealt with trolls. I've played around them. I've had some pretty successful matches even with a troll, because I had a competent crew around him and could work around. Annoying, yes. Game-breaking, no, because eventually they leave. If you get angry, it encourages them. Otherwise, you teach them. If they don't want to learn, that's them, and they'll leave the game in a few weeks anyways, because they can't use their 'l33t h4x0r sk1ll5' to solo a match and trash talk everyone else. Lobby full of trolls? I'll move. Do I wish there were a kick function? It'd be nice, especially to get rid of the truly toxic fools. But that would divide Guns to a point where you'd have high-levels playing skeleton crews, and 3v3/4v4 would become ghost towns. 2v2 is still the most played game mode, and that's JUST because of population.
2: I'll agree, Muse could listen more. Not hear, listen. Currently, they do just hear what the playerbase says, and refer back to numbers rather than active play. I would KILL to have Muse play some smurf accounts, be quiet, backed off, and get the pulse of the game from a novice perspective or from a mid-high level perspective. It would be a wonderful way for them to get feedback, by just listening to idle chatter. Waste of time? No. Waste of manpower? Slighty, especially with the focus on Alliance, which is why I can understand why they haven't done it, because of a lack of prioritization.
3: They do read the forums, just not the parts people want. As I said, they hear. Not listen. They see what people say, but don't really have the assets to respond. Or else they are too hesitant to respond, and completely destroy the meta, especially with additions like the Minotaur and Skyball, everyone's favorite whipping posts.
4: Mismanagement is not incompetence. Shall we look at the recent BMW scandal for reference?
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3v3 and 4v4 is a ghost town, less than 100 people on average on US weeknight. If you do somehow manage to find one they don't last long because they get unbalanced really quick. That's due to low pop and that has already happened without vote kick.
If vets wanted to play with a skeleton crew they could do that now by just starting a vet match they don't need vote kick. Most vets who play a regular open lobby do so with the intention of accepting one maybe two communicative low level players. That's not what kind of players we are encountering, so I don't see your anti vote kick argument as having valid points.
It also brings up something else you said th vets wouldn't play with noobs? Is that a bad thing? Should people be forced to play with someone they don't want to in a game? It sounds in a way like you want to dictate to others the manner in which they should have fun. Noobs can go play with noobs and there is nothing wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with vets playing together with noobs if they want. This is where muse gets it dead wrong don't force people into situations they want or the community will get toxic. No one wants to train all the time that's why you have CAs even tho none of them play anymore cause they got sick of the game and raining as well.
BMW was mismanaged to cheat, incompetent to get caught.
Muse was mismanaged in its decisions as far as not adding vote kick, handling of the community, certain changes like mino and skyball, and going for Alliance instead of improving skirmish. They are incompetent because they haven't remedied any of those. Banning Jedi was the first real action I've seen in a long time, and look what it was, and how long it went on.
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I've seen 3v3's last a few hours. 4v4's as well. They can get unbalanced if the Vets in match refuse to swap ships to balance it out. That's on the half of the vets, or else the novice's that are unable to comprehend what a notification is, and they will be leaving anyways because they will suffocate because they forgot how to breathe. Newer players will end up getting stomped 2v2 or 3v3, and partially it's on the half of the vets to balance things. Is it right? Maybe not, and it would be nice if there were a way to automatically balance out the lobby, but then there would be massive complaints about not being able to play with a ship full of friends.
I'm not saying 'want to', I'm saying end up being stuck with. if you were to siply vote-kick everyone below level 30, you'd still end up with some idiots. Seasoned idiots, but idiots nonetheless, who will end up loading incen into a gatling and firing at their balloon. Don't say you haven't seen it, because you have. Granted, it'll help get the most toxic of individuals out, but what happens when vets are kicked instead of reported when the vet was in the right, and was actively trying to help? Votekick works both ways. Vets are going to be floating around because of trolls, trolls leave because they run out of people to troll, newer players rarely have anyone with enough experience to learn from, bad habits set in, they finally meet a vet, vet gets angry because of the bad habits, novice gets angry because this is how they've always done it, etc. Etc. Etc.
BMW was not incompetent to get caught. Someone just caught them in the act. The truth would get out eventually, no matter how clean your tracks are.
Muse has made bad decisions, yes. They've handled some things poorly, and haven't been as active as they should, yes. This doesn't mean they are entirely incompetent. That topic, thankfully, has been laid to rest, and it was a long time coming. They're busy going in the wrong direction, but when they finally finish, they'll realize their mistakes, and fix it.
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On the subject of vote kick I'll always agree it needs to be done.
However...
PVE games are traditionally played more than PVP. That is a hard fact in the industry. Been documented over the years. Alliance is a good move and as long as it is handled right, it will extend the life of GOIO much longer than Skirmish. There are just more people who don't like competing with others than there are those who do. Your own posts even show the prime reasons why, there are a lot of trolls.
Heck I'm gonna play Alliance probably more than Skirmish once it is live just because I'm traditionally a PVE player. I'll do PVP but I'd rather be raiding than sitting around with 10yr olds and trolls who make me wish I could duct tape them to a mine launcher and see how many mines I can cram up them.
As far as the Jedi fiasco goes. I dunno if Muse was friendly with him or not, but you can't expect Muse to be 100% aware all the time of what a player is doing. There have been some people and clans Muse has been friendly with over the last few years that if they knew them the way some of us do, they'd never give them the time of day. Quite a few nutjobs actually. Most don't put that face publicly. Unless Muse is provided with ample evidence from the get go, they can't be investigating someone's report about trouble because it could always be someone trying to slander another.
Also don't expect reports to get filed unless you are doing it. This has been a long time problem with this community and why it has lost so many members. If you look at the players who have been around since 1.0, there aren't really that many left as a whole. There is a reason for that. Lack of vote kick, bad design choices (every patch since 1.2), and just overall friction within the community. Yet they'll never take time to address it here, let alone send Muse an e-mail. They just move to other games. Don't count on people to care to get their voice heard. It's very much like the American political system. There always is a great amount of people who just don't care to vote when it matters. Doesn't matter the candidate or party. They just don't want to vote. Figuring it won't do any good either way.
To be fair to Muse, the new gametypes were ones that had been asked for by the community long before many here ever got here. Now the problem is, the game we had then, where it would have benefited from more gametypes, is not the game we have now. So there is rebalancing that has to take place. Also the gametypes aren't the ones the community put forward. Skyball is spawned from Cargo Carrier, a gametype from Aerodrome 3, which is a modified VIP mode. What we'd do is designate a ship as the cargo carrier and then the cargo would swap on death till the game ends in kill cap. Points would be awarded for non cargo kills but the team that holds the cargo by the end would get the most and win. So it would actually be a mode where the VIP would swap from team to team. There would be no capture points so it would encourage teams to slug it out to the end.
Actually one of the problems is, Muse respects opinions too much. Which is why we don't have vote kick and some of the other silliness that has happened. They like the community a lot and listen often. Which is not really a bad thing, just this is their first big PVP game like this so it's been a learning experience. Would you rather have Muse be EA and you never hear a word from them ever?
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I'm giving out enough salutes to warrant being a private in the Pentagon. What is this madness?
Votekick is sensitive. Highly sensitive. Do I agree that it'll be a positive for the community as a whole? Hesitantly. I'm worried about trolls and such and people being abusive with it, but then again, they'll be abusive with anything. Will it hurt the community as a whole? Not likely, but I'd still be concerned.
I will admit that I'm looking forward to Alliance. I've been in every beta and the open Alpha. Hell, I begged my way into the test server just to play Alliance sometimes (Though I haven't reinstalled it for a while). I just think Muse didn't take the right preparations for it. Alliance is big. Very, very big. As in twice the size of Guns big. That's not a DLC, that's a new game, and they should have prepared for it. GoI is going to end up being the DLC of Alliance at the rate they are going.
I didn't know that about the gametypes, Glider, and that gametype sounds a lot better than Skyball. I get where they were going with trying to adapt Skyball, but still, having it be more along the lines of Team Kingpin would have been a more positive direction to go in.
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GoI is going to end up being the DLC of Alliance at the rate they are going.
Last I heard the game will switch to being sold as "Guns of Icarus Alliance" without a separate option to purchase just skirmish mode. It will lose them a few sales to people who just want skirmish mode at its current lower price but probably benefit sales and the community via people who won't like skirmish going directly to alliance rather than sucking at skirmish for a bit before leaving and never getting alliance.
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So they are packaging it all together. Well, it's a plus, a lot of the newer players will go towards the PvE side of things first, hopefully, and the seasoned Vets will get PvP mostly to themselves.
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Somebody said that it's the veteran crews to refuse balancing swaps.
From my experience it's the opposite.
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I'll admit it was me, but I also stated that it's also mouthbreather newer players who refuse to understand what a swap request is.
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I'll admit it was me, but I also stated that it's also mouthbreather newer players who refuse to understand what a swap request is.
Part of the issue is that the other team's levels arent shown. Its stupid.
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Been stupid since the beginning. Nihil novi.
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You can still check through their levels, but I agree. It never makes sense when you're trying to join mid match, and you're only shonw one side's levels.
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PVE games are traditionally played more than PVP. That is a hard fact in the industry.
Im sure wherever you got that from was talking about Skyrim, Fallout 4, or Mass Effect type games, im pretty sure alliance isnt going to fall into that category. Many of us have hundreds of hours in the guns because the pvp aspect of it makes it dynamic, diferent pilots ships and maps make everything change from game to game, even a different tool on one engie can have an effect.
As far as the Jedi fiasco goes. I dunno if Muse was friendly with h
im or not, but you can't expect Muse to be 100% aware all the time of what a player is doing.
If Jedi sexual harassing girls was a secret then it was certainly an open secret a lot of people knew about it and i find it very hard to believe that no CA or mod knew. At any rate I accused him of it here on the forums and the thread was deleted for making a "personal attack" against him, the thread was deleted, and I can only assume the allegations were not investigated as this was many months ago and we are just now getting the ban. Whoever worked for muse that deleted my thread was aware of my accusation against him from what I had seen, and choose to do nothing. Im not sure if that choice was because they liked him more than me, or they were getting free work, or they dont take sexual harassment allegations seriously unless it comes from multiple victims.
I saw someone from muse post on here once that no one should have to train that doesnt want to, however ive never seen any system implemented that would keep a low level player, who if they join my ship im obviously going to have to train from joining.
Ive been in multiple matches with trolls, who do more than just ruin the game, but also are nasty and curse at you or insult you, ive seen no system ever put in place to deal with them.
What i hear is a lot of talk from muse about how they care about the community, how they want to protect the community. Covering for jedi for months was not protecting the community. Allowing trolls free reign does not protect the community. Muse has established a track record of protecting the offenders and not the victims.
How hard is it to smurf? Not very, you dont even have to buy another game, just make another steam account and family share, its free. So you ban someone from trolling, they just family share and they are back. You have no system in place to stop this, none at all.
Give us vote kick, start caring about the community. Make vote kick your #1 priory, and maybe accept the fact that alliance will not succeed without skirmish. If you had 4k active players in skirmish, I would feel pretty good about the alliance expansion, but you dont, you have 200. Many of those arent even going to buy the game or if they have they arent going to play it. You might wanna start thinking about free to play to get the #s up for skirmish.
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Narayan, for fuck's sake.
Like in the court, you don't demand justice over a fucking crime you have no proof for.
If you witnessed such situation you should've recorded that anyhow AND PRESENT THAT PROOF IN PUBLIC. Otherwise it fucking is personal attack.
Don't act like a fucking unaware moron, that's my field of expertise.
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Hey bro at my job they have to investigate any accusation of that nature. Anyway they have all the chatlogs and ability to get proof they need, and that is what they finally did months later. So yes you can expect that they would investigate over something like this.
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That's something slightly different. I focused on the part "hurr durr I told you guys and you locked my threads", and why exactly.
According to Keyvias they had some serious troubles investigating that to a degree they could've been certain the action is needed. If I agree with that or what I think about that - nor any of us - does not change the matter. As well as because I don't know details, I met Jedi maybe twice or three times in game. And he was acting like an arrogant prick then.
I may not like you Narayan, but I don't pick up on people in general, so yeah, we're cool. Just got slightly irritated by the thing explained at the beginning of this post.
G'Night.
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Lot's of stuff was said, but I want to say something about the vote kick: I have played for about 3 and a half years. If vote kick would have been around since the beginning, I could have been kicked out of a lobby a lot during my earlier days by the vets outnumbering me. I would have probably left the game much earlier then, if that happened to me. But it didn't, so I could stay in the game and have a fun time and the ones I play with and know me also have a fun time (as far as I know).
The real problem about vote kick isn't that there isn't a vote kick, it's that CAs can't do anything, which results in a unnecessarily long fiasco, and it takes forever until the assistance of a mod comes in if a natural troll player doesn't comply to the CA.
But then I can't only complain about the lack of power the CA program gives a person in these kinds of scenarios, since I know a person that seriously thinks of every low-level player as a troll. Low-level players that may seriously not understand the game's mechanics.
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@Dementio when you played the game 3 years ago getting away from a troll in a bad lobby meant going back to crew form and hitting play, good luck doing that now and finding a match. Good luck finding a CA who still plays, and good luck with low level players not know stuff cause CAs dont teach anymore.
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Hey guys,
Just wanted to jump in, there's definitely a lot of good talk going on so I don't want to cut off the thread at all, but for the Jedi case. Let's keep the talk to a minimum, if you guys want to discuss it privately together (or with us) we'd definitely be fine with that, but we're trying to keep public talk to a minimum just in case something slips out. (I know we are being super sensitive on this topic, but since minors are involved we're trying to do everything we can to limit any more damage.)
I will say for the investigation. As we stated in the post about it, a lot of the chat took place outside of Icarus, so the investigation wasn't as simple as plugging his name in and seeing something said.
With that interruption out of the way. Keep chatting! We're keeping an eye on what's being said and there are definitely some valid points.
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Stuff
How come I can't block Keyvias?
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good luck doing that now and finding a match. Good luck finding a CA who still plays, and good luck with low level players not know stuff cause CAs dont teach anymore.
Greetings Narayan, I am new to this game. I did buy Guns of Icarus Online about a year ago but I got to play it this month. I did notice the player count is very low but I had no problem finding a match even with that number. In my second game, a CA called Kajros joined my ship, and he taught me everything there is to play more professional. From that point, every high level player and CA as well that had me on their ship was surprised that I know and do things that normal novice doesnt. Its awesome that CAs are teaching everyone. I see at least 2 or 3 of them every time I play.
I really dont know why are you talking about CAs not being online or helpful.
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Well welcome to the game. While I'm sure it's not difficult to find a game finding a balanced one has become a challenge. How do you find matches? Do you use matchmaker or the march list? One of the more recent changes has been to place the match list more prominently, however this had had some side effects that haven't really made long term players super happy.
The major issue with the easy match list is that when I click ready and start a game I have a plan based on the crew I'm starting with. If I have 2 ai then my ship is planned around that, I'll probably take a Goldie or double gat pyra. The same goes if I have a full crew, if I look at my full crew before the match starts I'm going to take into account player level and experience when I make a decision about who will be gunner or who will be main engineer. I will assign a loadout including the appropriate ammo to each person make sure my ship is properly equippped and so is my crew then click ready and start the match.
In the good old days when I had 2 ai on my crew the only way I would get a mid match join is if someone on my friends lists wanted to join, or someone had a friend in the lobby and wanted to join. That meant I was usually going to get a mid to high level player, who at the very least would join as an engineer with standard kit, and probably look at my guns and bring the right ammo type. At best they will send me a pm saying something to the effect of I'm going to join standard kit would you rather I bring buff?
So this causes problems for 2 reasons, first I've been getting a lot of 2nd gunners mid match, or I'll get low level engies joining with chem extinguisher and mallet or something crazy. The 2nd is I might have accepted playing against an opponent who is high level with the expectation of having ai who's abilities in familiar with and then mid match I get one or two low level players that if they joined before the match had stated would have made me re evaluate the ship I was taking at the very least or abandon the match or ask for a ship swap at the most. This has been a quite frustrating experience as of late.
I'm glad to hear you have received good training, however the reason most people are surprised when you do turn out to be competent is because ca training has been so poor as of late and you are and exception and not the rule.
How many inactive CAs do you have muse?
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We have a bunch of inactive CAs. Mostly because we have CAs and Mods from 4 years ago.
The biggest problem we've found with CA's isn't that they don't want to help or that they don't want to teach. It's that it's not obvious they're there and some hop on just to play (these guys are players.)
When asked our CAs have been amazing helping with events, teaching new players during sales, and being there every time we call. For different timezones and when we're not setting up something ourselves, I completely agree a lot of CAs go back to playing and enjoying the game while still trying to be nice.
This is something we talked about just this week in the office (moderation being a hot topic.) Of way to improve CAs being active in teaching. Our first idea is having it post an automated message in global when they sign on like "Hey everyone, [name] here and happy to teach you about the game just message me"
or something to that effect. That way CAs are constantly pushed and known for being helpful rather than people that are able to circumnavigate our clunky help menu.
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Stuff about automated messages
That's a good idea. You could also add some flavor for each CA. Like Manns would say "Hello, friendly CA here to help. Send me a PM or click my name and join crew!"
While someone like Sundstroms could say "Hey, I'm stacking with SkBo! Join our crew and bring terror to the skies! Solidus is drunk again :D"
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Oh my gosh "hey everyone CA just joined a lobby as pilot join his ship now to learn the game". Than you get like 3 lvl 2s on the ship. No one would want ca then.
To change the subject. You see what I'm talking about with the late joins tho right it totally ruins your plan.
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Oh my gosh "hey everyone CA just joined a lobby as pilot join his ship now to learn the game". Than you get like 3 lvl 2s on the ship. No one would want ca then.
To change the subject. You see what I'm talking about with the late joins tho right it totally ruins your plan.
Theres a lot of people, myself included, who were interested in CA work until they saw how CAs get treated. Heck I know some former CAs who absolutely hated it just because no matter how nice they'd be or how hard they'd try to help new players, the new players would treat them like trash. It was literally like the new player would shove dog poo in the CA's mouth and then force them to eat it with a smile on their faces. CAs could do nothing against this treatment.
It's not worth all the money in the world to be treated like that and unable to do anything about it. CAs don't even get paid!
CAs should have had the power to impose a kick or a ban for people who behave like that. Because think about it, if they treat a CA with such disrespect, they are treating other players with worse.
The trouble is, only CA Mods can do that and with good reason. Their requirements are steeper than CAs. So you have responsible people handling that stuff. However, if a kick vote system was in place, the work load could be taken off the CA system. Maybe some CAs would actually enjoy teaching again.
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You introduce a vote kick option it will be overused and abused. Plain and simple. If anyone knows of games that use it in the past they are associated with toxic communities. All ya gotta do is get one salty person to initiate the vote and most people will follow like sheep and just kick when they dont even know why. (left 4 dead 2)
Doesnt matter if you leave it to a captain to initiate. That says that all captains in this game have a high moral standard to only kick true offenders when everyones definition of a troll is different.
You initiate vote kick, you lose more players. Then you're talking about a skeleton crew remaining of players.
On the subject of CA's i see a consistency of long time players with the CA tag just playing with other high level players, as well as other CA's consistently going and helping novice crews. I think it's time to re-evaluate who is a CA now and fire and hire all over again.
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You introduce a vote kick option it will be overused and abused. Plain and simple. If anyone knows of games that use it in the past they are associated with toxic communities. All ya gotta do is get one salty person to initiate the vote and most people will follow like sheep and just kick when they dont even know why. (left 4 dead 2)
Doesnt matter if you leave it to a captain to initiate. That says that all captains in this game have a high moral standard to only kick true offenders when everyones definition of a troll is different.
You initiate vote kick, you lose more players. Then you're talking about a skeleton crew remaining of players.
On the subject of CA's i see a consistency of long time players with the CA tag just playing with other high level players, as well as other CA's consistently going and helping novice crews. I think it's time to re-evaluate who is a CA now and fire and hire all over again.
Yes you will, but you aren't seeing the cost of what keeping trolls around is doing.
The cost of a few people getting ticked about being kicked, doesn't compare to the number of people who just stop playing due to trolls.
Case in point, ARK Survival Evolved. There was a time when servers were maxed out all the time. This went on for months. Then the trolls and the cheats had their toll. 70+ person servers that would be overloaded during most of the day, would struggle to get past 20 during prime times. This isn't an isolated case. I've seen time and time again over the years where a game without proper community police controls, would implode due to the inhuman behaviors of these animals.
Sure you'll be pissy if you get vote kicked the moment you join a match but, sometimes those people have had a friend that DC'd. You know how many times I've had that happen and someone jumps into the slot that refuses to leave? Holy crap, you come to really appreciate the nice ones who understand. There's just too many that sit there or get violent about giving up a spot. Then others who don't play with their sound on.
Establish a kick vote with a reason why ability, it's been done before. It works. It is much easier to track down and punish people abusing a group kick vote than it is to have to police an entire community in it's current form.
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if muse is interested in my suggestions you should go check out my letter keyvas