Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Indreams on May 13, 2015, 07:12:08 pm
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Let's talk Banshee Light Rocket Carousel.
I love this gun. I've even had it show up in my dreams once (where I was a crew on a mobula. I detached the banshee so I can shoot backward at a horde of chasing Pyramidions). But you know where it doesn't show up? In my ship load outs...
Its just that, when I try to use it for something, there's a gun better at that "something" than the banshee. For example, if I wanted explosive dama wge for when armor goes red, Flak, Mortar, and Artemis works far better. If I wanted ranged fire, I'm putting a Hades on my ship. If I wanted a snipe, Mercury or Artemis or even heavy gatling...
How can I make Banshee work on my ship?
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Work with what the banshee delivers. It adds alot of fire, and it does explosive.
You could pretty much combine it WITH hades, and you will automaticly cause chaos to everyship if they arent ready (Or in pub game).
You could use it as your fire maker, which in turn also is a killer weapon.
So lets say on a squid, if you usually use, gattling flamer, you could make it gattling banshee. Use the banshee for the effect of fire, but it will kill whenever it fires an unarmored ship.
Usually on my spire, i tend to have 2 light flaks or something else depending on build. When i switch it to banshees, we dont kill as fast but its much safer for me as a pilot to jump on it fire a bunch of shots and go back. Same goes for the gunner, and the effect allows for firing when the armor is up or down.
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I was on a highly successful spire build that had a banshee and heavy flak below. In the time it took for the flak to reload I was able to go and empty a full clip of the banshee.
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Pros:
Good arcs
Fast turn speed
Multi-range capabilities
No projectile Arc so easy to shoot (I think it's because it's particle)
No arming time (so they can't get close to make it's shots ineffective)
Cons:
Tiny explosive damage (Takes too long to kill them)
Inferior fire stacking to flamer (Why not use a flamer dummy)
In terms of Hull break
Its a matter of preference really, on my meta junker I found that the enemy would easily run away from mortar shots (since the projectile speed is so slow) on the gat mortar combo and it frustrated me to no end. Then I tried light flak but they would just stick close to avoid it's arming time. Then I tried Artemis, and they flew up to avoid it's arcs -_-. I then tried the Banshee and well... it wasn't great but I eventually killed them. The fire damage added pressure on their armor repairs and it gave me enough time to get the front Artemis in arc. The Mortar could have probably finished him off had my crew mate led his mortar shots a bit more but I said the same thing on the gat mortar squid and the banshee took the mortar's place.
Honestly though I just wanted shots to hit and be effective. It's easy to shoot, hard to escape from, and after the first armor break, you don't need to wait for armor break.
In terms of ranged flames
The Banshee has no arming time and so you can use it in close range and long range. It has good arcs so the enemy is going to have a hard time escaping from it, and you can chase with it as well (since it has decent side arcs). It has no arming time, so provided you have close range weaponry...... Ok, so I'm basically comparing it to the Hades and repeating myself.....umm
Ok, I have an example. I have a full disable Junker.
It has double Artemis on port, front banshee, and double carro starboard. It has disable on both sides but both sides have guns with weird arcs and different ranges. The banshee has good arcs so you can angle yourself to avoid enemy arcs while all three guns are still shooting and it has multi range capabilities. Once the Artemis breaks components at range, those take time to rebuild and in that time chem sprays won't be applied.... Banshee applies fire to neglected components at range. The carronades will break everything except the hull health but the banshee has explosive.... Banshee breaks hull health and applies fire to make sure components don't stay up for very long.
It's not that effective but the banshee has a place on this ship and I don't think another gun can replace it.
If you need to apply fire at long and short range then banshee it up but make sure you have something to break the hull or components as well. You want something to break chem spray rotations.
I would say try use it on a Hwatcha or Blender fish, both disable and work well with fire. Also if you need to hit below when an enemy tries to avoid your heavy carro arcs, a banshee can be just the range and pressure that you need while you get the heavy carro in arc.
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Give it explosive damage comparable to the old LF. Not in each shot but the entire clip. Old LF had 4-5 shots. Not as powerful as mortar but was perfect for quick hitting and accuracy, even with the spread. What mortar would do in 1 clip, LF would do in 2 but many pilots swore by LF because it was just more versatile and better with break timing.
So take that overall damage and spread it out over the 8+ shots on the Shee. So it would take about 1.5-2 clips to do what a mortar would. Done. Shee would be in loadouts again. LF would be forever forgotten as the great weapon that Muse ruined.
Then Muse adds an arming timer and ruins it...again. Sigh...it would be nice if Muse buffed something to fit in the cqc but quick hitting area like the LF used to be. But I'm so afraid of them adding more arming timers that I just think we'd be better off nuke and paving. Make new guns, forget these exist.
Sad that I can see them justifying arming timers on Shees too. They'd probably give it a huge fire burst when it impacts. Big AOE fire spread dealie, then give it an arming timer to balance. You'd go "zomg awesomesauce!" then you'd see the arming timer and cry quietly in a corner.
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It's a good all-around weapon, nice arcs, diverse range, easy to hit. And since the (completely uncalled for) pyra hull nerf it can also wreck ships.
Hard numbers (thank you llamatron), a buffed greased banshee can unload in 3.1 seconds, doing 675 hull damage, which (assuming good timing and accuracy) is enough to:
- kill pyra hull.
- kill junker hull with 2 rockets to spare.
- leave mobula at 25 hull health
- leave a galleon half dead.
Also one clip of banshee kills about 1/3 of a balloon just from direct damage, might be useful coupled with a light carronade.
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http://gunsoficarusonline.wikia.com/wiki/Banshee_Light_Rocket_Carousel
We have a wiki :)
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Personally, I'm a rather big fan of the carousel and there are a few builds where the carousel is a fairly effective tool such as:
Kill/disable squid:
Gat front/ carousel side/ carro rear.
This allows for kill focused front/right and balloon disables with rear.
Brawling type mobula:
You can use either gats below/ carousel top and right wing OR gats on hull below and right wing with balloon mortar and carousel top.
The placement of these weapons means that the gunner will primarily be using the right wing gun while the top carousel can be used by the pilot if the enemy cannot maneuver out of the way while their hull breaks.
Brawling Spire:
Dual gats top with Hwacha/carousel below
Greased carousel firing time syncs nicely with Hwacha reloads allowing the gunner to effectively use both guns below at near full efficiency while the two engis are up top focusing the gatlings. Alternatively you can swap the right gat with the left carousel and have an engi downstairs while pilot uses the carousel though its a bit less efficient.
"Meta" Junker:
Gat mortar right side/ Either triple carousel OR Hades double carousel left side
Triple banshee is easier and can decently take balloons down allowing for somewhat of balloon control at long range with light guns. Alternatively, Hades double carousel can threaten a lot of fires while putting a hammering on balloon and hulls; however, its really difficult to be able to put and keep all 3 in arcs considering there is only a 5 degree overlap.
Side banshees have also been very useful for the gat/carro pyra for quicker kills via the hull engi.
There's also a somewhat silly Pyra by using incendiary gat/ double greased banshee pyra. You would be surprised at how easy it would be to 8 stack an unprepared weapon with that. Of course it's very vulnerable to chem sprayed ships so its better to bring a gunner with incendiary and greased for that occasion.
The main thing to take advantage of is its fast turn rate/ high arcs/ and quick fire rate. The fact that it can do somewhat decent at balloons and start a few fires is more a bonus on top of those advantages.
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Banshee seems to work fine as the side gun of a Squid, Pyramidion and Blenderfish. Its arcs and high projectile speed make it superior to other explosive guns in these loadouts, in my opinion.
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Hmm,.. Since Flamethrower got nerfed, I think I'll try side banshee on a goldfish. Should cause similar havoc.
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Hmm,.. Since Flamethrower got nerfed, I think I'll try side banshee on a goldfish. Should cause similar havoc.
It will cause much less havoc than the new flame but has the advantage of a very short empty time (greased) and much higher hull dps as well as increased range. I wouldn't recommend as the main side on hwatcha fish only blender and possibly lumber. Btw banshee is a raycast gun.
I've seen it used to great effect as the pilot gun on spire for mid and close range. A classic brawl spire loadout is gat banshee top. Banshee can be used at longer range then greased gat while pilot hops on banshee.
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Yeah I got a friend of mine to switch his fish to side Shee from flame and he's liked it a bit more. He misses the old flame sure but having more kill power helps.
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You can still use it as a main side gun on the hwatcha but it depends on your playstyle.
If I see an ally playing ranged, I play ranged by landing a Heavy clip hwatcha volley and then spraying a few banshees to pick up any excess red crosses and start any fires on freshly rebuilt hull.
I do this so I don't get in front of his arcs and in case any other enemy ship tries to sneak up on him, I'll counter them.
Also at close range I usually have something to strip armor on the other side like a greased Carronade or Gatling (I prefer carronade since new players don't know how to hit hull Q_Q). The banshee doesn't add as much fire as a flamer and so not very useful in armor break/ disable but is useful for hull break. At close range, once I see armor break on carronade shots, I switch over to the banshee. The non-chemed armor will set on fire to ensure it stays down, while hull break on both guns work their magic.
I don't know, some people like to have just flamer and gatling so you have double armor strip and kill with Hwatcha. Probably just my weird passive aggresive playstyle and having to have a Difecta with everything....
Play with what works and experiment with everything, your playstyle will tell you what feels right. I'm sure a banshee will impress you just when you least expect it.
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Double shee gat Pyra trifector ;). Like the hades double art trifector but for closer range and you can also use it on the side of Carronade flamer Pyras. The arc and quick rof make it perfect.
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Still can't get a ranged heavy clip hwacha to do a lick of good now since the change. I use burst. Just wait longer before firing. Does a lot more than heavy does. But yeah, old routine was heavy clip ranged then switch to burst close.
Grey that works as long as the Pyra doesn't fold up before it gets the trifecta. Zomg I got another gat kill the other day on a Pyra. Used to be rare or it would happen when under fire from 2 ships. Lots of damage and all. Now...picking away, getting ready to turn for mortar arc...nope, gat kill. Moving on. Granted it was weak at the time but we unloaded a few clips in it while it was taring to prevent my attack angle.
It wouldn't be so bad if the poor thing could turn like it used to back in classic days. Then weak hull + adequate turning would be a good combo in an experienced pilot's hands. Actually give me a good fight like Brick used to. Even with stamina they are like galleons but without the broadside to watch for. See that is where a good galleon pilot can get a squid. Just use the squid's speed against it. Eventually it will have to slip through a gun arc. I'll often save some evasion to do just that to mitigate the potential dmg. Better to get hit by a few rockets than a whole clip. Vet gunners are rough because they watch for it and even a couple of rockets could cripple with their placement. But its just a risk that sometimes has to be taken if a galleon pilot tries to tango with a squid.
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Still can't get a ranged heavy clip hwacha to do a lick of good now since the change. I use burst. Just wait longer before firing. Does a lot more than heavy does. But yeah, old routine was heavy clip ranged then switch to burst close.
Burst is pretty terrible for banshee. I don't understand the reasoning behind it at all.
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Still can't get a ranged heavy clip hwacha to do a lick of good now since the change. I use burst. Just wait longer before firing. Does a lot more than heavy does. But yeah, old routine was heavy clip ranged then switch to burst close.
Burst is pretty terrible for banshee. I don't understand the reasoning behind it at all.
Couldn't agree more. Burst increases AoE, for the banshee that is 3mt 25 Fire an 2 stacks at 25%.
Why burst?
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I mean it is still the highest damage. I prefer the higher DPS of others but I can understand why some may like burst.
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He was talking about burst in the hwatcha
but I generally only tell a crew member to load burst into the banshee if I know that they'll be manning another side gun that works well with burst rounds like an Artemis. It's an extra shot and no damage reduction but lower rate of fire (I expect every shot with it to hit cause it's gonna count).
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Sure burst has the highest damage per clip. But with so long to empty the clip, reaction time of the guy shooting and bullet travel time, you never do end up emptying the entire clip before armor is rebuilt - and if you do, you're fighting the wrong enemy. If you wanted to have a good damage per clip you would have chosen a light flak, might as well use the banshee to what its good for which is the harassment fires and greater damage before armor drop.
You might as well use normal over burst in my opinion - You guarantee more shots going in the hull because no decrease to fire rate and you have a plus of more fires per sec. Because lets face it, if you're using a banshee you are using it as a harass weapon and not a kill weapon, sometimes even a support weapon - with that in mind you don't need that extra 70-80 damage you get per clip with burst, you need a quick way to dish out damage with your engineer for him to go back to repairs quickly(if you're using it as a support weapon) or you use it as harassment, and then you just want high fires/second stats and burst is not the way to go.
I will say though that if for some reason you still want a banshee for kill weapon the only viable target to use burst banshee on is a galleon because long rebuild times still allow you to empty the clip.
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Hmm, so I guess you definatly don't need ammunition that hampers it's rate of fire.
In doing so reduces it's killing potential and harrassing abilities.
I don't really see any ammunition that would substitute for greased besides just normal.
From the ammunition that don't touch it's rate of fire (Heatsink, Lesmok, and Heavy clip) the clip reduction from the last two reduces it's potential for any sort of harassment while the damage reduction from heatsink does nothing to justify the same rate of fire as normal.
Strange, I always saw the Banshee as a gun that had versatile preferences of ammo types (even though having it's Greased meta).
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I used to have heavy clip banshee on the left side of merc mobula with banshee - carro. Heavy clip was good for extending effective range but banshee damage is too low and I swapped it for a light flak with much more success, especially after switching to lesmok light flak - gat.
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You used to only use heavyclip and greased for banshee, so you can guarantee hull hits on distant ships with heavy. But since the heavy nerf, I would just use normal at longer ranges and greased in close vs certain ships that have slim hull profile. Just because with that many more shots you are probably bound to hit more than with the heavy.
We actually use heatsink in a banshee on one of the builds that require banshee to be rarely shot by a main engineer. Heatsink is not hindering the fire rate and give a larger clip size than normal so you still get the support potential when you use it. Some may argue that greased is better because of higher dps vs the armor than heatsink, but in that specific build, the enemy is almost always at lower than 50% Hull when using the banshee and it requires turning time to it, and sometimes the engineer has to repair and get on it a bit later... so I found that the added benefit of a shorter chem cycle with heatsink on and extremely high rotation speed is more beneficial than greased most of the time.
But in most definitely all other cases greased is the way to go.
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Does firing the banshee in bursts (and not with a burst round) increase accuracy?
Say I have a mid-long range mobula build. I have hades top for hull strip. Flak for kills. Artemis for gun/engine disables.
But Banshee for Balloon Pop? I guess its accurate enough, but is it better to shoot slower for accuracy, or use a heavy clip for accuracy?
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This thread actually made me study the Banshee all over again; I'm thinking about some interesting effects when used with other weapons.
@Extir: I understand the faster response of Heatsink, but still find it a bit strange because Banshee has one of the fastest rotation speeds.
@Indreams: Unlike weapon recoil in conventional FPS, firing slower does not affect projectile spread. Banshee doesn't do much direct damage against Balloons, but it does make it catch fire.
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I understand the faster response of Heatsink, but still find it a bit strange because Banshee has one of the fastest rotation speeds.
Yeah I mainly like it for usefulness of the fire immunity on guns that are rarely used, because it gives you a larger window of quickly responding to emergencies since you don't have to go to certain places for chem cycle. The fire rate is not crippled by it and you have larger clip than normal ammo. So it is more of a side bonus that you can turn it faster - always helps a bit.
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Dementio's Fancy Fairy mobula has the gunner jump from merc to banshee with heatsink (already for merc). For engi I think you should always use greased. Heatsink starts more fire than normal, and - 6% dps + 4% damage per clip.
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Dementio's Fancy Fairy mobula has the gunner jump from merc to banshee with heatsink (already for merc). For engi I think you should always use greased. Heatsink starts more fire than normal, and - 6% dps + 4% damage per clip.
While its probably better to use greased most of the time, some rare situations and builds are nice to have heatsink on - Even if its not optimal damage wise, it still has other benefits. Not everything is revolving dps.