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Recent Complaints and Whatnot That I've Seen

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Corporal Ravioli:

--- Quote from: Baelfire Ender on September 30, 2017, 12:02:43 pm ---And now I can see what you guys mean, which the population being so low that stacking becomes a necessity-ish.
--- End quote ---
I want to clarify just in case I was misunderstood. I'm not saying it's a necessity(ish) to stack. I'm saying it's a side effect of experienced players wanting to /win/, not necessarily every player having fun equally. It was a point of criticism when I said that the primary tactic was aversion.


--- Quote from: Baelfire Ender on September 30, 2017, 12:02:43 pm ---just trying to disperse the more experienced players to the new ships would help in some manner.

--- End quote ---
This is what I'm saying. The challenge is that it disrupts the culture of the game. More players would solve this, but I'm afraid the population may never climb enough to reach the desired effect. 

Richard LeMoon:
I disagree with you 99%. Vets play with each other most of the time for the same reason a group of friends new to the game play on the same ship. The "gotta win, so play with the best people I can find" mentality is very very rare.

The other reason vets play with each other is you don't play a game to be frustrated. GOI can be a VERY frustrating game playing with new players. An easy way to avoid frustration is to play on friends' ships.

There is no "culture of the game". It is just people coming online to try to have fun playing a game. The easiest way to do that is to hang out with friends. Full stop.

I have been asking for a voluntary handicap system for some time now, buffing the other team, a certain ship, nerfing your own, whatever. A lot of vets would use this, since self nerf through silly builds is quite common. This is because a stomp isn't fun either.

Corporal Ravioli:

--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on September 30, 2017, 02:20:36 pm ---The "gotta win, so play with the best people I can find" mentality is very very rare.
--- End quote ---
So when I'm in a lobby with level 1-25 players as a 38 pilot, a 45+ that I've never played with enters and /immediately/ repositions to my ship, it's not because they want to win? I have been a witness to this behavior time and time again.



--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on September 30, 2017, 02:20:36 pm ---A lot of vets would use this, since self nerf through silly builds is quite common. This is because a stomp isn't fun either.
--- End quote ---
I mostly agree with you here, and partake in the same behavior myself. I will say though, I still see stacked meta ships /all the time/.


--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on September 30, 2017, 02:20:36 pm ---The other reason vets play with each other is you don't play a game to be frustrated. GOI can be a VERY frustrating game playing with new players. An easy way to avoid frustration is to play on friends' ships.
--- End quote ---
And make it infinitely more frustrating for those who are still in the process of learning. I mentioned this aversion strategy in a previous post.


--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on September 30, 2017, 02:20:36 pm ---There is no "culture of the game". It is just people coming online to try to have fun playing a game. The easiest way to do that is to hang out with friends. Full stop.
--- End quote ---
You may be assigning a more specific context to the word "culture" than I am here. Having friends/familiars in-game and choosing who to play with /is/ culture. Behavior that is not directly propagated by un-contestable game features /is/ culture. The fact of the matter is that the game promotes teamwork without regulating who you actually do that with, and the response to that is that proven players tend to stick together. That has no implication of superiority or seniority; it naturally emerges from the architecture that we have been provided.

I think this is behavior /good/ thing. The issue is that there aren't enough players to keep that behavior from making it seriously unfun for anyone else that plays against the stacked crews that appear. This could be resolved by spreading the talent - /immersion/ instead of /aversion/. Yes, it's challenging, but it's also building everyone up together for long-term rewards at the (immense) sacrifice of game-to-game camaraderie. This is exactly why I believe that it is not possible. It sure as hell doesn't keep me from discussing it however.


Footnotes:
To pose another example of my application of culture: suggesting proven loadouts to new players /is/ culture. There are no systems in place to guarantee or even ebb a player into taking an effective kit. Other players teaching them the dogma is outside of the game's architecture, but imperative to the actual gameplay. Hopefully these examples help pin down exactly what I'm talking about.

As well, I clarify in voice-chat a lot when these kinds of discussions come up and I'll do it now: I hope that I don't sound like a jerk or whiner when I bring up things like this. I genuinely enjoy conversations about engineering and design, and particularly how behavior emerges from and influences interactive systems. Sometimes my points land a little funny and it makes me sound like a more combative person that I'm actually trying to be. I probably don't have to mention this now but here I go anyways.

Richard LeMoon:
I see what you mean by culture now. I don't really agree, since that is pretty much the 'culture' of all games, be it online or real life sports. So, more of a human culture thing than a GOI culture thing. That makes it pretty impossible to overcome.

I think the GOI culture is to be more friendly and helpful than other games. We often go the extra mile, even while 'stacking' with our friends. I'll often give the other team advice on what to do with their ships while we are in a match. Sometimes they even beat me after they take that advice. I have seen quite a few other players do that as well. I don't know how common that is in other games, but I feel it is a defining factor in our culture.

Solidusbucket:

--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on September 30, 2017, 05:41:57 pm --- I don't know how common that is in other games, but I feel it is a defining factor in our culture.

--- End quote ---

Its not common in nearly any other competetive game. The only other time I have seen this as a possiblity is in Starcraft and BroodWar - where the lobby was set up that everyone could "talk" (text) to eachother.

But yea, fuck you scrub.

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