Info > Feedback and Suggestions

A cry for change

<< < (12/29) > >>

Richard LeMoon:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on January 17, 2017, 09:26:18 am --- The spire changes are word for word Richard's suggestion. Regardless of "how it's meant to be", the community doesn't want a slow, tanky spire with two front guns and insane vertical accel

--- End quote ---

Not word for word. There was 800 HP left off that broke the test, which, if you noticed, is the trigger for this entire thread. 800 missing HP started this avalanche. With the 800 more HP, it actually was something a lot of people were interested in TESTING, if not seeing in the actual game. Without that hull, it was a test of something no one wanted, but presented in a way that people thought  A. it was Muse's idea. B. it was a player's idea.

It was a mutant mix of both, which is why it failed.

The Mobula gun fanning was not a player suggestion as far as I know. It was an attempt to bring the Mob back in line with win/loss stats in direct response to players complaining that the Mobula was a Spire hardcounter along with the Squid. So, the Squid and Mob both get bizarre nerfs instead of buffing the common element. Putting the guns further in than original and nerfing vert was player driven, and I think most people are OK with the Mob now. It requires more skill to fly now, and better strategies than "push W to win".

Changing Loch (never heard it was player suggested) was based directly on changing the Typhoon which was (even I will admit, though I hate it) needed for most players. However, changing Loch based on that one gun change was not needed, since no one even uses newLoch on the flak. So we ended up in a bizarre situation of changes that make no sense that went counter to what every tester I know was saying. Between the Mob gun fanning (all testers said it was awful) and the Lock changes that went into that 'balance' patch, testers felt betrayed. If you think the population has dropped here, you should see testing sessions in devapp. We can't even get a full 2v2 lobby during official dev tests. People have given up on testing because they don't feel like they are being listened to. Sure, little adjustments are made, but overall response was ignored. The overall response to Mob/Loch was a resounding "NONE OF IT!" "This won't work." "Players will ragequit." "it does not address the problems." In it went.

I am not trying to be insulting here, Blackenpies, but most people think clans are almost as out of touch as some devs with the general playerbase. You almost never see some clans playing with the general playerbase. The majority of the community does not consist of well-oiled crews buffing and cheming with unrivaled precision. I don't claim to represent what the community wants, so neither should you. As evident in this thread, parts of the community did want to see the results of an actual Spire Tank test. If you polled the entire playerbase, the result would likely be a resounding "Yes, let's test this even if it does not go in the game.". I wanted to test Tank Spire. Other people wanted to test Tank Spire. We are part of the community. So please, no assertions about what the community wants, when the community itself just proved the contrary.

Keyvias:
Hello everyone,

I am stunned. This has been the most well constructed negative post I have ever read. As everyone here has spent time on the internet, we all know what a feat that is to talk about things everyone is passionate about while still conveying their idea effectively. While I may disagree with some conclusions, I only hope I can mirror the amount of respect you've all shown with your carefully crafted words. There are 4 pages on this thread as of writing, so if I miss anything, it's not a personal attack and please remind me of any point that I missed and I'll do my best to reply to it.



* From #Spank to #SplunkerEric's changes to the testing numbers that were proposed is not meant as an insult, but as a compliment. The reason he tweaked the numbers is he liked the idea, but felt like the changes to hull health would make it even better.
He was wrong.
This happens in testing and why we test. Even Richard's original idea had the side guns fanned out a little more, an idea disliked in play later.


* Why send in the Community Managers to testing?Players can be passionate about ideas and often times not as constructive as they are here. Organizing testing, taking feedback, and trying to explaining reasoning is time consuming, it's also something that (hopefully) we're better at handling than Eric himself. It is also easier for us since these are not our ideas so we can come back to Eric and say objectively, this idea failed in a way that he listens better to. Which is why the #Spank testing will happen again without the gun fanning and the with the higher hull health to build a true Tanky Spire.
I completely understand why you want to have Eric be the one in the testing room or responding to the emails, but if that was the style. A lot of communication would be lost in translation and a lot of your great feedback wouldn't even get a response email confirming it's been received (since there are many feedback emails.)



* Where are we?Let me start by listing what to expect from the Muse Offices:
-Alliance is released in Q1 of this year
-Alliance contains at least 3 game modes (probably 4,) 4 whole factions including 4 faction player ships and weapons
-Skirmish and Alliance are combined into one product the day of release (no one will be able to buy just skirmish or just alliance)
-On Alliance release day, some Alliance maps are made for Skirmish play.
-Continued #WildWeek testing with ideas from the community
-Continued #AdaptTheMaps

One month out from Alliance Release
-Alliance receives 4 more game modes
-Alliance receives 2 more factions with weapons and ships
-We investigate weapons and ships that have the opportunity to come back to PvP. Some weapons like Gas Mortar, just won't ever make it back due to super unfun to get hit by.

That is our next upcoming months. As a 4 year old product, content updates to skirmish don't earn us much attention or sales. When skirmish combines with Alliance, we get to call skirmish updates as alliance updates and then we get more featuring from Steam. With the last open session we were able to get featuring from Steam which earned us a bit of money to help us keep the doors open. If you say this isn't skirmish focused, you're right. We have to get a new product out, it's taken longer than we've expected and that is honestly our fault, but it's the reality we have to work with to get Alliance out to have a new product to promote and sell which still lets us work on Guns of Icarus. If the way this panned out is too much, you can definitely switch us off.

I want to do the best I can to explain the situation from our side. Tension is high on our side as well, Alliance has been a larger undertaking than we originally imagined, but it was something that has allowed us to continue to work and care about Guns of Icarus since it's an expansion. People are right and some games can release and continue to release content and get attention well after release. Team Fortress 2 and others are pulling this off amazingly, but that is not us and that's not our reality. Guns of Icarus Skirmish without Alliance gets no attention from Steam (who controls our featuring) and from Press (including youtubers.) Those two nozzles are the major power points that have driven any spikes and sales we've earned.


* Where do we go from here?
We have tried to be more attentive with things like the player council and #wildweek, but I have some questions that would really help me focus in what we need to do better.
-How often and what do you expect in a content update for skirmish?
-How often and what do you expect for balance updates?
-If you could change one single thing tomorrow, what would that be?


This isn't me saying I will promise anything or that we're going to be able to change into something you fall in love with all over again.
Maybe we can improve our style into something that brings you back, but sometimes we're going to lose people to games that more fit their style.
Byron pointed out that he feels World's Adrift is the Open World Adventure he always wanted. We won't be making an open world game, so if Byron has found a game he finds fits his taste and likes the development style more. I wish him the best and I am humbled by the thousand hours he put into Icarus and the discussions we've had throughout the years.
---------------------------------

Again, I want to thank everyone for the discussion, it's a super intense topic and as people have mentioned "game is dead" is something we've fought for a long time. Our struggle is one of survival, but since we came out in 2012 and we get to have this talk again in 2017, at least we made it here.
I do want to do better though and I hope this discussion and my response is a step on that path. I will try to do my best to keep up with this thread as it evolves.

Hoja Lateralus:

--- Quote from: Skrimskraw on January 17, 2017, 11:59:39 am ---Goio is worth the 5 euros on sale, always was ;)

--- End quote ---

More like 3,74 euros as of at least last 2 years.

OPtodaywasacoolguy.jpg
I salute to the OP because he repeats what most of vet community thinks in a calm manner. +1

FisherEx:
Well, thank you for your response Keyvias. I'm glad to know that at least some maps from Alliance will find its way into Skirmish, but some questions still remain:
- Will you be porting Alliance ships and guns into Skirmish and if not then what stops you form reusing your own content?
- Why did Eric left the forum and the game in the first place while he remains "the hand of balance"(and though he is still active outside of the game)?

Solidusbucket:

--- Quote from: Keyvias on January 17, 2017, 12:20:05 pm ---Hello everyone,

 please remind me of any point that I missed and I'll do my best to reply to it.


-How often and what do you expect in a content update for skirmish?
-How often and what do you expect for balance updates?
-If you could change one single thing tomorrow, what would that be?



--- End quote ---

I feel like I should chime in here since I'm pretty awesome.

You didn't mention anything about more hats.

Now, to answer your questions:

I expect more maps. New ones, altered ones (different spawn points, drastic changes to clouds / dust storms, different time of day, other ideas), and ported ones from Alliance. (Also adapting them all for 2v2,3v3,and 4v4). I'd like alterations monthly and new or ported ones every quarter.

I don't have an opinion on balance.

My underwear.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page