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Lower Goldfish hull health to 1000

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RearAdmiralZill:
1. Lets not turn this discussion into something it shouldn't be. Let's keep it civil and get our points across eh?

2.
--- Quote ---Actually, back when heavy flak used to be more or less overpowered it was extremely common to see it on goldfishes aswell. I'm sure RearAdmiralZill would tell you a lot about that if you brought the notion to him. Lumberjack had no arming time back then aswell, I wouldnt know but it was probably good on goldfish aswell. Probably still is.
--- End quote ---

Appreciate that shout out  :P. I do miss the flak fish but that was definitely a case of the gun being OP, not our beloved fish. It works again with Alliance though! Small victory. When the lumber first came out with no arming time, yea it was OP as hell and I honestly didn't use it till they put it there. That was a hectic few weeks. Currently it's still a great gun to use on a fish, but kills are kinda slow. Very much more of a support boat. Carronades where made OP by Eric giving it 50m extra range for the hell of it (i'm exaggerating but the current heavy carro makes me sad) and the fish could utilize this to great effect. It got nerfed a bit too much in my opinion, but that's not why we're here. Hwacha is currently the best gun (opinion) to put up front, mainly for the versatility. It can support, it can kill. Burst ammo needs changes to mitigate this at long ranges, but if you don't de-fang a fish up close you should pay for it. What do all of these have in common? The gun was OP and needed nerfing, not the Goldfish.

And on to the proper discussion. The Goldfish does not need nerfs. Yea it utilizes a single heavy gun to pretty devastating effect because it gets to control the range of engagement. Any other boat using these guns can't as well for various reasons. Spire can't cause it's squishy and slow, but to compensate you get light guns forward facing to bring the pain. A Galleon can't by design due to broadsides, but you get two to play with, and a light gun on port. Goldfish requires what it has because your heavy gun defines how you're going to fly it, and if you want to be close, it needs health to do it. Enter the current perma and armor values. Armor is low and perma is kinda high. You generally trade perma to get close, especially against hard counters like a Pyra. Taking out that heavy gun is also made super easy with how it has 0 armor around it, and it's really the "teeth" of a Goldfish. Disable the gun, de-fang the fish, chip him away. A fish with low remaining perma is super limited in what it can do.

There are a ton of ways to counter a Goldfish these days with the prominence of burst ammo in Artemis and Hwachas, as well as guns like gatling that can very handily take out that front gun, or a merc for one-shot wonders. Squids have a hard time, and the changes put in place aren't helping. Needs more get-up-and-go.

Heavy guns needed nerfing because they were in fact OP. The Goldfish was just able to exploit those factors the best due to its great control over its choice of heavy gun. Spire and Galleon's issues aren't because the guns are underwhelming. It's a multitude of other issues which I can elaborate on if you wish.

Spud Nick:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2784.0.html

Here is a post from a few years ago talking about the Goldfish.

Daft Loon:
Even as a fairly dedicated goldfish hater I've never really had a problem with it as far as general balance (at least since the blenderfish got nerfed into the ground), the weakness of the armor is enough that my generally dubious ramming Mobula loadouts do well against the goldfish. It also suffers horribly from a well applied Minotaur.

I can agree with the complications around balancing heavy guns mainly:
-Carronade has to be nerfed because blenderfish, now it sucks on galleon/spire.
-Hwacha can't be nerfed because then what will the fish use?

The main problem I think is the lack of side gun usage, the Hwacha only works because of its long reload cycle, Carronade, Flak and Minotaur struggle to make any use of side guns leading to Flak/Mino-fish being jokes and blenderfish largely ignoring its side guns and working (less so recently) only due to the power of the Carronade. Lumberjack is a special case thats more or less fine as is.

Solidusbucket:
Guess ill chime in since i have been using goldfish more recently.

Its fine.

Arturo Sanchez:

--- Quote from: Unarmed Civilian on November 17, 2016, 03:39:26 pm ---Jesus Christ, no wonder so many people abandoned this game.

--- End quote ---

Its always funny when a Junior thinks they can sum up 3 (its 4 i know but I wasn't there) years of the game's history.


Also Blenderfish was my baby. For the longest time it was my trademark ship. It had many subtleties and any slight miscalculation and lost of control on enemy target will result in your losing the combat vs any decent meta pilot.

A blender needs several seconds of control on an enemy ship to kill. A meta just needs 1 hull break and ram to kill he same goldfish, and a smart meta will shoot the gat on the blender so they can't kill via ram kill.

So when I hear this nonsense about hull nerf. I'm like... do you even play guns? Let's also not forget that even pre-carro nerf. It was a MUST to use correct ammo on a blender for it to be vaguely effective. A default meta could easily out dps a pre nerf blender.

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