Main > General Discussion
How would YOU nerf the Mobula?
Mean Machine:
--- Quote from: MightyKeb on March 18, 2016, 03:47:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: Mean Machine on March 18, 2016, 03:37:59 pm ---
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---...................
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I couldn't possibly imagine you could put so much BS in a single post. I stopped reading after about fifth quote, since you clearly are not even trying to make reasonable arguments. You pretty much replied for the sake of replying and it seems that it's very important to you that you prove me wrong. Better luck next time.
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How are you going to prove him wrong when you don't even respect him enough to read the whole post? By definition, you're not making a reasonable argument while calling him out on not doing the same.
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I have no intention of proving him wrong, because I don't care what he thinks of my opinion and I don't feel the need to prove him wrong. I care what others think, because they show genuine interest on this topic and they bring up some interesting points. I had a nice discussion with them, but I honestly didn't agree with them with certain points, so I replied and shared my opinions. I was being 100% honest with my opinions. Sammy however don't seem to wish to provide any serious points to the discussion.
nhbearit:
--- Quote from: Mean Machine on March 18, 2016, 04:29:46 pm ---I have no intention of proving him wrong, because I don't care...
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What a glorious example of why the Mob is fine as it is.
Meanie-Butt, if you don't read someone's post simply because you don't agree with their position, then why the hell should anyone read any of yours?
Addendum: I'm aware Meanie-Butt doesn't speak for everyone who shares a position similar to his.
Richard LeMoon:
The defining feature of the Mobula is the five forward facing guns, not the vertical maneuverability. That is a lesser feature. When guns fire more slowly with reduced range and more limited arcs every patch, vertical movement becomes overpowered. This image shows how it has become harder to keep a vertical target in range.
The reason the Mobula has 'become' overpowered is because guns have a lot harder time shooting it. The Mobula vertical is the only thing that has not changed in the equation. Ships have gotten slower, meaning it is easier to keep them in horizontal arc (buff to Mobula). If they are far away, you simply have to turn a bit to keep a fast moving ship in arc. A small amount of angular movement translates to a very large horizontal movement at anything but close distance. There is no limit to how far you can turn. Vertical is different, as you have no vertical angular movement other than the gun. It is a very limited in how far it can turn. The only way to keep a fast target in arc is to move your own ship.
The solutions are as follows:
Give guns their range, arcs, and velocity back (and fix the angular momentum issue)
or
Increase all ships' vertical speed.
or
Reduce Mobula vertical speed.
Mean Machine:
--- Quote from: nhbearit on March 18, 2016, 05:13:18 pm ---
--- Quote from: Mean Machine on March 18, 2016, 04:29:46 pm ---I have no intention of proving him wrong, because I don't care...
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What a glorious example of why the Mob is fine as it is.
Meanie-Butt, if you don't read someone's post simply because you don't agree with their position, then why the hell should anyone read any of yours?
Addendum: I'm aware Meanie-Butt doesn't speak for everyone who shares a position similar to his.
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Haha, did you miss all my posts in this thread? I continued discussion with those that wished, Sammy is only exception, because I don't believe he was being serious here.
Also, what position?
I have read your post now, Sammy and maybe it wasn't all shit. I guess you did put a little bit of effort, so I will reply to you and I apologize for being an asshole and overreacting, even though I still don't believe you genuinely tried to make a serious conversation and here is why:
Example of one of the things you said: "because flamers are such rage" - I'm not sure what exactly you meant by this, it was definetly sarcasm but I'm not sure if you meant to say "because flamers are such a problem?" or soemthign like that or maybe it was a typo and you meant to say "because flamers have such a range"? In any case, I simply can't take you seriously here. I don't believe you think chem sprays are useless and I bet you wouldn't play competitive matches without chem sprays or extinguishers if you saw enemy taking fire based weapons. Would you? If you would not, that means that your reply was simply not honest or serious and thus I got an impression that you are probably not interested in making valid points and seriously discuss topic, but instead you replied to me just for the sake of replying and trying to "prove me wrong". Again, that's the impression I got. this was just one example about your... well silly reply, there were more. But I think you get the point. I hope.
However some of the things you said actually sound valid enough, so I'll reply.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---
Mobs are easily one of the best pursuit ships. If you're chasing someone, what is better. Being fast or having 5 guns?
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Yes, mobula has front guns, but in one of my previous posts I mentioned that some of the ships like goldfish, squid, pyra , spire, even junker sometimes can escape with manuevering around terrain, they can easily do that while mobula can't always. Imagine paritan rumble and mobula chasing squid. Yes, you can go over building, but come on, you can't or don't always want to do that. There are a lot of situations that you won't do that, for example: you don't have enough of balloon, ally of enemy ship you're chasing is above and is waiting you with hwacha or whatever, enemy ship that you're chasing is flying low on purpose,s o you going over the building will be extremely time consuming and you will lose target or just wouldn't be able to catch up. That's why I also thought that another one of your responses was silly - the one where you said "Unless you know you can go up." and then again "Unless again this is an airship game and going up over cover is an option." I will assume that your strategy doesn't involve going up and fly through everything in every situation, am I correct?
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---The Mobula is a front facer. Like all ships with primarily front guns it is fast to engage and disengage as it can go directly forward or back to keep shooting.
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I was thinking in situations like when your ally dies and you can just boost right through enemy to get behind them and keep going and by the time they turn you can get nice distance and escape. Mobula can rarely do that succesfully. No way near as easy as goldfish or squid for example. Yes, I know you are gonna say, "but mob has front guns". Before mobula turn around and start shooting, squid can be behind hard cover easily. And if you don't have artemises, you won't even disable them even if you do turn in time.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---Kinda but it has high enough armor and hull combined with a very difficult hit box that it doesn't take too much.
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Doesn't matter, the fact is that mobula has one of the harder layouts for engineers and that's all I tried to say.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---Not terribly hard. Never had an issue with double buff on the mobula. Maybe the engines will get ignored a bit.
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Yes, of course, if you take two buffers then of course it's not that hard, but you won't take two buffers. I was trying to point out that if you take one buffer, which is pretty common, then it's harder to keep components buffed in comparison to pyramidion for example. One buffer can easily keep most of pyra buffed. One buffer on mobula will seriously hurt mobulas effectivness if he would try to buff as much components as he would on pyra.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---While there is a bit of a delay between order to tank and start of tanking its hardly worse then most ships save maybe the junker.
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How many times you see mobula tanking? Almost never, because it's not worth it, because it's either main engi brings armor up in time or you die. In other ships like squid or pyra or fish or spire and even galleon and junker you can easily get at least two guys on armor in a matter of 2 seconds. For mobula it's just not worth it. You either keep firing and try to kill them before they kill you or you try to dodge if you can.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---Spread out components are a huge plus, not a minus. Junker probably has the most accessible components but I hardly ever thanked the Muse gods for their accesibility after a hwatcha or artemis barage.
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I'm talking from engineering perspective adn survavibility. Engineers will spend more time to repair components because it takes more time to reach them.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---Again this is where front engages excel over side engages and I'd say a mobula has an easier time tracking targets.
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By tracking I meant what I already said above, it's hard to track and chase your target with mobula through lots of terrain (parritan, duel, canyons....) Also, due to terrible turnings it's hard to track and keep fast ships in arcs.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---Perhaps but again, guns are better than speed and voice chat is even better.
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By catching up with ally I meant if you seperate due to scouting, flanking, setting ambush etc... If ally gets in trouble you might have a bit harder time getting there in time than some other ships would have in certain maps.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---Because rams are such a huge part of the meta
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Really?
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---
Nah light guns are generally better than heavy guns alone as heavy guns almost entirely need another gun to support their role.
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Purely subjective. How many light guns are there that don't need support of another gun? Lumberjack alone can lock down any ship and eventually kill it if you let them shoot it. If mobula loses ballon in long range engagement in open and there is no ally to support, mobula won't recover if that lumberjack gunner knows what's up. Once artemises are out of arcs....
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---
Did something change. Carronades are like the opposite of dogs, they can't look down like at all. However the advantage of the lower balloon being is defensive. When faced with a blender on almost every ship you're dealt with the issue of not being able to shoot the enemy even if you're guns are faced the right way. Thats because on every ship the balloon is this huge thing several meters above your ships and most relevant guns for dealing with a blender can't shoot up well. The Mobula's balloon reverses this and while true its not a great turner, if it can face the right way it can respond fire on the mobula, a wholly unique trait that flies in the face that on paper blenders should be great against mobulas.
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I had a brainfart there and messed up arcs for carronade, but I corrected myself long before your post came up :) Doesn't make a difference anyway, like I said, you can still blend mobula even if you're little above it.
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on March 18, 2016, 03:24:31 pm ---
But why? Guns aren't created equal in regards to ship usage and placement. The heavy flak is one of the greatest weapons in the game but you sure as hell wouldn't put it on a goldfish. Even the artemis is a poor gun for the front of a squid. Trying to blame the prominence of the mobula on the artemis is ignoring a lot of factors
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You can't just look at the numbers and say "flak is the greatest weapon". No weapon is most powerful in all situations.
I compared mobula with artemises (who by many is considered OP) to a mobula without artmeises to show how much it would make a difference and that people could maybe figure it out if they actually think mobula is OP due to arties or it's just ship itself that is OP.
Richard LeMoon:
You guys are starting to post quotewalls of text so high even a Mobula can't buffhydro over them.
Stop it.
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