Author Topic: Whirlwinds everywhere...  (Read 13475 times)

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Whirlwinds everywhere...
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 06:45:57 pm »
Quote from: Helios.
somewhere between the mercury feild gun and the gatling gun, is what im feeling: accurate and medium-long range. damage not all up front like the merc, but not having to rely on random spread at longer range or tight arcs in close range. a sustained, accurate assault rather than a sniper bullet or a hail of lead fired wildly.

You've described the hades. I don't think we need another piercing light gun. It's the most common damage and any new gun would have to compete with merc, hades, and gat. Charged merc does 70% and lesmok hades does 79% of the dps of gat.

Banshee doesn't replace gat but it can be used as an alternative to a piercing weapon to help break armor. For example I use banshee on brawl galleon with mino-hwatcha-banshee, carro-hwatcha. Buffed mino, buffed hwatcha, and a greased banshee is plenty to break the armor of anything less than a junker. I like to have a banshee on mobula to complement the hades or merc. Although it does 34% of gat dps (due to long reload), it's the best comparable non-piercing gun.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 06:47:33 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Helios.

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Re: Whirlwinds everywhere...
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2015, 12:44:33 am »
there are 4 explosive damage guns, and since im not really counting the harpoon, that's only three piercing weapons. my point isnt to quibble, its to point out that where you have a long range version, short range version, a mid-long range version and a rapid fire version. there are some peircing weapon parity options, the artemis and the merc for example, or the gatling and the mortar. the flak and the banshee are effective at similar ranges to the hades, to a more and less degree of course. my suggestion would be for a weapon more like the echidna, fast reload speed and rate of fire but arming time and relatively small clip. the huge number of shots you can put out in a huge cascade out of the hades reminds me most of the banshee's brief but effective stream of projectiles with a long reload time.
i want a long range pressure weapon, at range it would allow a ship to put consistent and reliable damage on the hull that would be more than could be repaired by a diligent crew, as all piercing weapons do, and must do, but its accuracy and fast reload speed would mean it could wear down your hull unless you take cover or break the gun.
the hades almost fills this role, except it has a couple of features that undermine its capability and make it a functionally different niche. first of all because of the fire damage, it does a passable job of doing hull damage, as anyone who has been caught in the open with a double hades pyra or even triple hades mobula can attest. it also allows for decent damage to any part of the ship you hit, if you miss the hull and hit the baloon, no worries that's decent too.  the same is not true for the mercury or the whirlwind. second of all, the hades in the hands of a skilled gunner can reduce a ships hull in a clip or two for most ships even with lesmok, making it either a very dangerous weapon in the hands of an expert or a fireworks gun that lights up your ship as the projectiles all miss in the hands of a novice. thirdly, when loaded with greased rounds, the effective range becomes very intimate, and the damage becomes immense, as hitting at the range where greased is most appropriate is a comparatively easy shot even for a gunner of middling experience.
because of these reasons its a very fun gun, and carves out its territory and value very clearly, but it is not as close to the merc or the gatling gun in terms of use as you are suggesting, in my experience

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Whirlwinds everywhere...
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2015, 01:26:38 am »
The mine launcher is the close range piercing gun that does 268 armor damage. Hades isn't good against balloon. It can put on fires which is good but it's only 54 damage per shot or 39.1 dps to a 1200 hp balloon. It's better than nothing but hades hitting your chem sprayed balloon is not a problem. What is a problem is reliable regualr hits. Regular does 90% of the dps of gat and with consistent hits can break armor faster that gat which loses effectiveness due to jitter/hitting components.

The arm range on hades doesn't matter and is the biggest myth in the game. 150m is less than greased flamethrower range and unless you're using a broadside then you don't get that close. Using greased reduces it by 30m. 30 meters is about the length of a squid. A cruising pyra travels more than 30 m/s and fish goes 40. To a charging ship that's burning engines the extra 30 meters is nothing. You bought yourself 2 seconds and lost a buff hammer. A buffed hades lets you do above regular damage at lesmok range and more than greased at regular range. And component buffs.
(Meta game assuming you always have buff engi on gat and merc. I've heard too often people advocating for gunner on hades)

My original point is that the purpose you're describing isn't different enough from existing guns. The way I see it the piercing tree is full with the hades being a top gun in the game. I can't imagine where it would fit but that doesn't mean it couldn't. Despite 2600 hours, my opinion is the same as everyone who loves this game. But I am critical.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Whirlwinds everywhere...
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2015, 12:19:58 pm »
I did suggest to muse to create an ammo that gave guns piercing property in their dmg.

High velocity/armour piercing ammo. This was thought up as a means for a vet player to make rubbish builds like double flak pyra at least pipe dream level winnable.


their response but... but we have new ammo in the works that will [totally be not what the game needs]

edit-

found it

Quote
High piercing ammo-gives even explosive guns like flak an increase in
pierce dmg but decreases explosive. Increased rate of fire, lower
clip. Hence cannot replace greased.
High Explosive ammo-decreases pierce but increases explosive. lower
rate of fire, bigger clip.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 12:24:12 pm by Maximillian Jazzhand »

Offline Helios.

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Re: Whirlwinds everywhere...
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 01:24:51 pm »
Oooh heavy flak's day will come again!

Offline ADMIRAL ANGRY

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Re: Whirlwinds everywhere...
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2015, 01:37:34 am »
I know how to fix it, make a bigger whirlwind for large gun slots! To much dakka can be fixed with even more dakka.

agreed! why not have a giant sllow-firing gattling gun?
something like this skip to 2:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSp7CipN1pw

Offline Helios.

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Re: Whirlwinds everywhere...
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2015, 04:22:06 pm »
they've talked about heavy slot gatling weapons as being too hard to balance. if we thought the metamidion with the gat flak was bad (prepatch, of course) ... the galleon with the heavy gat heavy flak would be worse