Whirlwinds everywhere...

[Helios.]

i like the whirlwind, its a solid, useful gun, no doubt. my problem wiht it is that i cant remember a game that didnt have at least 1, but often much more.

it is a good peircing weapon in a world where piercing weapons are pretty rare, there are only 4 if you count the harpoon gun which im inclined NOT to do, and it fits into a role that is definitely important. im hoping that together another mid/closerange weapon that is useful for stripping armor might be imagined and ultimately created.
some questions need to be adressed:
how is it different, how does it fill a different niche than the gatling gun, so that it isnt treadign on the other's toes
for example: the mercury gun and the hades cannon are not the same gun, but in SOME respects they can be used similarly, they both are useful in long range armor strip, but they don't feel interchangeable: most of the time one is better than the other, and you can feel the difference.

[Helios.]

in the world of goio, there are a lot of weapons that offset their dps boosting accuracy with a slower rate of fire dps penalty. i feel like the difference in trying to disable something with a Gatling gun compared to an artemis is pretty clear to everyone who has done it.
there isnt a rocket launching weapon that is designed for ease of use in armor stripping. the banshee feels like it could be somewhat related to what im suggesting, but giving it pierce would be catastrophic balance-wise. it cant be too long range, or it starts to tread on other weapons territorial domains.
a short range hwacha more like than the carosel: a high risk, medium reward (its a light gun afterall) sort of weapon designed for peircing rockets, not ones that would explode, but just lodge into the hull, like a harpoon gun with a clip, or a nailgun with attitude

[MightyKeb]

Perhaps that one era early in this game's development where Carronades could reliably pierce armor could give you some ideas. Other than that, I'm too tired to post anything else.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

How bout this. Delayed explosive device weapon. Sticky bombs so to say. Latches onto the hull and explodes after a delay. Minor impact damage to accompany it. No where near mine damage. Just enough to rock the ship a little and tear the crap out of the armor.

Kinda like these in the Battleship movie some years back:

[Richard LeMoon]

Perhaps a light bolo cannon/sling that fires similar to the mortar. Mortar-like drop with less range, slow moving with no shatter damage, higher piercing, and some flachette. Give it good arcs and fast turning. It would be a very close range weapon specifically made for close-quarters brawling. The greater arcs would make it superior to the Whirlwind at paint-scratch ranges, while useless at first strike ranges.

Could re-purpose the mortar to test in devapp, if the devs are willing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain-shot

[Helios.]

we dont want a weapon with flechette and peirce damage that is dps based, its too easy to just shoot any old place. hit balloon, no problem, hit hull awesome... thats not a balanced weapon

something like the linked chain cannonballs for destroying rigging and masts might be funny, but im not sure what game mechanic woudl come with that...

the sticky bomb idea is interesting, but if thats only so it doesnt put that much damage up front to balance it, it just means you can sink a bunch on and turn your biggest guns on them as soon as they blow the armor off.

[Richard LeMoon]

Actually, a weapon with both Piercing and Flachette damage would be similar to a weapon with Fire damage type, only less useful when the armor is broken. Shooting Fire anywhere is OK.

The Hades does well because its Fire damage can chew through a balloon while its Piercing can chew through the armor, then the Fire takes back over and does multiplied damage to the hull. It is balanced by being harder to shoot and having an arming range. A chainshot weapon with Piercing and Flechette would be balanced by short range, slow projectiles, and minimal damage to bare hull, as well as having almost no ability to damage guns and engines. It is also something doable now that requires no additional mechanics.

[Helios.]

fire damage is a dark horse, it doesn't behave like any other kind of damage, it basically works or doesn't based on how fast or complete the fire suppressing tools are on the defending ship. i feel like in many ways the flame thrower is a mediocre alternative to the gatling gun at the ranges where they are effective.
for this reason it isnt like the gatling, and people arent really using it in lieu of the gatling, because its not reliable

[Richard LeMoon]

I am talking about Fire type damage, not flame stacks. Adding flames is an independent mechanic from direct Fire damage. Fire damage works the same regardless of fire suppression. The Banshee always set fires, but there was a time it did not have actual Fire damage. That change has completely changed how the Banshee is used. To recap:

Fire damage is a gun property telling the game how to modify damage based on what is hit.

Setting fires is a gun ability, set based on percent chance, as well as being set individually for each gun.

There was a time a while back with a poorly tested update that the Fire damage of the flamethrower far exceeded the Piercing of Gatling. Chem or not, it would chew through balloon and hull in a matter of seconds, then instantly destroy the hull. Guess which gun everyone had on their ships that week? As such, the direct Fire damage was nerfed to almost nothing to make sure the flamethrower's primary ability was setting fires. The reason it is not reliable is because it was simply designed that way. They could just as easily remove any fire setting ability and give it high Fire damage to make it very deadly in all situations.

[DaOrks]

I know how to fix it, make a bigger whirlwind for large gun slots! To much dakka can be fixed with even more dakka.

[Helios.]

i remember that week, it was a fun week...
i know the difference between fire stacks and fire typed damage, but im saying that because of the former's reliance on teh latter, they are somewhat hit or miss. yes i know that there is a flat damage unrelated to the stacks, but im saying its typically underwhelming without teh stacks that come afterwards augmenting teh damage.
we could change that but i dont think it does us any favors makigna  weapon thats good at EVERYTHING no matter what they do. and without the fire stacks fire damage's damage multipliers is not as great vs hull armor as it is vs the permahull

[BlackenedPies]

Even so an unbuffed greased banshee does 220 armor damage and 350 balloon damage in 3.1 seconds.

My favorite brawl junker is triple banshee left, gat flame right. The greased banshees, with two buffed, quickly does armor/balloon damage and puts a ton of fire on everything. When against armor aim at components. The right side uses a top greased flame which has a range of 160m. Buffed greased flame does a surprising amount of damage and shoots for 11.1 seconds. Trifectas pls.

Chem reduces your repairs by a minimum of 22% so in prolonged engagements under fire you repair much slower.

[Daft Loon]

Unarmed hits from the minelauncher are a surprisingly effective close range piercing alternative particularly with charged or buffed mines.

[MightyKeb]

Unarmed hits from the minelauncher are a surprisingly effective close range piercing alternative particularly with charged or buffed mines.

Can confirm, in some cases they can oneshot a squid's armor.

[Helios.]

im not seeing greased banshees in liew of whirlwinds though, either the news is slow in spreading, or it really doesnt fit the same niche, although il admit i like that it works, i think its hilarious, and use it myself occasionally, i want a more dedicated piercing weapon, not a bullet hose that works only because of the stunning volume of shots that can be dished out rather than any damage type bonuses that would indicate its intention as an armor stripper.
somewhere between the mercury feild gun and the gatling gun, is what im feeling: accurate and medium-long range. damage not all up front like the merc, but not having to rely on random spread at longer range or tight arcs in close range. a sustained, accurate assault rather than a sniper bullet or a hail of lead fired wildly.