Sunday Community Skirmish #78 (Signups for Sunday November 22th)

[Fynx]

I'm really happy that there were so many teams in this scs, comparing to the agony during the last weeks.

Sadly, the Bards did not participate and there was a stray GSR ship.
For people interested, it's good to contact pilots of potential second ships directly. Also there are clans with competitive experience that did not participate and possibly could do that, such as Overwatch, Ducks, SPQR(?). I recommend asking around when you're short on crews/pilots/ships.

And of course, I'm happy that Solaris made their way into competitive, with a very good result.

[SteamyNoodle]

I recommend asking around when you're short on crews/pilots/ships.

Definitely, and I also want to stress that the forums are probably not the best place for that, asking other pilots directly in game or over steam or something is likely to meet with more success.  A lot of people who play the game regularly don't browse the forums regularly, I know I hardly do aside from around SCS time.  I know a couple of groups, like DerWaechter and the IAC guys are pretty regularly looking for a second boat to fill out their roster, in addition to the veteran groups Fynx mentioned.

I also want to second the shout-out to Solaris, very strong first showing.  More teams in the tournament always means more fun for everyone, glad we had such a great turnout this week!

[Byron Cavendish]

Had a fun time, thanks guys. Only issue I'd like to say is: in our second game, when we entered lobby we were told builds will be locked in, in 1 minute. Our first game did not have that rule, so I was not expecting it in the second game. Because we waited approximately 45 minutes, half of my team had wandered off and had to be collected. My priority when being told my lobby is up is to get in, then give my team the pw and get them to join on me. So I spent about 1-2 minutes getting my team found and in. The last thing I'm doing is reading lobby chat until everyone is in. So by the time we were settled, I was stuck with a build I did not want, and it really affected our plan going in.

 I would ask that, in the future, the rules stay consistent between matches, and are clearly stated prior to the day's start.  I am sitting there diligently waiting for the go ahead. That s plenty of time to tell me any changes, and I would be far more forgiving with even a 5 minutes heads up of any changes. I was not even given the slightest clue that our lobby was waiting or had changed rules until I was told "Byron, get in here, your lobby is waiting...". And I had asked multiple times on an ETA, that was not accurate. Also, when we are waiting that long, I do not wander. I am very punctual, and take getting in promptly seriously. So while I let my team wander a little after such a long wait, they know when I call that they need to be in within 2 minutes. I cannot however, juggle getting them in and dealing with a lock-in rule with no prior knowledge, that's not fun for us or the viewers if the ensuing game is not entertaining. All I ask is in the future, be clear and consistent with the rules, give me a heads up when our lobby will be expected to go up when we have waited an extended time. We had a very enjoyable first game, but that second one was ruined by the lobby for us.

[Extirminator]

I was the referee in your match that "proposed updated rules", so I can comment on the situation a bit.
I was informed by lu, that I should make sure you know about the rule of loadout locking because he did not mention it in the first match you played. The reason for him not mentioning it was because in the match you played when he was your referee, both your team and your enemy team already spent a lot of time in the lobby so it was assumed by him that you already all picked your ships of choice - so a mentioning of the rule was not necessary. Which, I would admit, was a mistake on our part.

As for your match starting unexpectedly, and you being informed last second so to speak-
First of all, you are, as the contact point of your team should be expected to watch the stream, or at the very least should be aware of it so you can estimate when to get your team ready.
Second, the referees cannot be expected to contact teams that will play next WHILE the current match that they are referee on is still going. You are supposed to get a notice roughly 5 minutes before the start of your match to gather everyone and play. But let's put that aside for a second, I DID inform you that your team will be playing versus the winner of the current running match as I was referee on the match before you, which should imply to you that your team is playing in roughly 15 minutes -most likely enough time to get everyone ready.
Lastly, if the tone of my message of "Byron get in here" was a little rough, it was because I already informed you of your team playing 15 minutes before that specific message was sent, and have sent you a match invitation a minute before, which you have failed to accept.

Nevertheless, at least you are now equipped with information about the rules of the event to hopefully have a better time playing next time.

[Tintil'Tal]

I recommend asking around when you're short on crews/pilots/ships.

Definitely, and I also want to stress that the forums are probably not the best place for that, asking other pilots directly in game or over steam or something is likely to meet with more success.  A lot of people who play the game regularly don't browse the forums regularly, I know I hardly do aside from around SCS time.  I know a couple of groups, like DerWaechter and the IAC guys are pretty regularly looking for a second boat to fill out their roster, in addition to the veteran groups Fynx mentioned.

I also want to second the shout-out to Solaris, very strong first showing.  More teams in the tournament always means more fun for everyone, glad we had such a great turnout this week!

Hey Steamy, thanks for the shout-out, but it's a bit premature. We haven't filled our boat yet. When we do though, we will definitely be looking to pair with other clans for a competitive team.

Congrats on your SCS win!

[Byron Cavendish]

I was the referee in your match that "proposed updated rules", so I can comment on the situation a bit.
I was informed by lu, that I should make sure you know about the rule of loadout locking because he did not mention it in the first match you played. The reason for him not mentioning it was because in the match you played when he was your referee, both your team and your enemy team already spent a lot of time in the lobby so it was assumed by him that you already all picked your ships of choice - so a mentioning of the rule was not necessary. Which, I would admit, was a mistake on our part.

As for your match starting unexpectedly, and you being informed last second so to speak-
First of all, you are, as the contact point of your team should be expected to watch the stream, or at the very least should be aware of it so you can estimate when to get your team ready.
Second, the referees cannot be expected to contact teams that will play next WHILE the current match that they are referee on is still going. You are supposed to get a notice roughly 5 minutes before the start of your match to gather everyone and play. But let's put that aside for a second, I DID inform you that your team will be playing versus the winner of the current running match as I was referee on the match before you, which should imply to you that your team is playing in roughly 15 minutes -most likely enough time to get everyone ready.
Lastly, if the tone of my message of "Byron get in here" was a little rough, it was because I already informed you of your team playing 15 minutes before that specific message was sent, and have sent you a match invitation a minute before, which you have failed to accept.

Nevertheless, at least you are now equipped with information about the rules of the event to hopefully have a better time playing next time.

I'm sorry but I understand the lock-out rules information,  the issue was the communication of them. And I was not aware that one of the requirements of competing in the SCS was required viewing of the event while we wait. We were match A, and then match J. I don't know how many games happened in between those two, I had no clue who my opponents were that I was supposed to be waiting for. We did wait for roughly for 45 minutes for one more game (potentially), which is a bit excessive by any standard, whether I'm choosing to view the event or not. I'm sorry but I can't keep track of the streamed games, and my team, for that length of time. 20 minutes sure, 45 no.

I may have missed your initial lobby invite, I keep my eye on the chat log more than anything, and less so on my alerts. I am much more likely to see an actual message pop up then just a lobby invite which comes and goes very quicky if you miss it, again especially after 45 minutes. I do try to pay attention, but comon, you expect me to notice a lobby invite over a message?

I'm all for participating if the event is run at a decent pace, but if we get sent to the loser's bracket, I'll probably just forfeit from now on. Not worth the stress. It's just not fun to wait that long and be screwed on my build because of a rule change that only allows us to focus on in the time when were usually focusing on getting our crews in to the lobby. And if it's not fun, why will I return? You guys are having an issue with retention aren't you? Honestly the way the SCS has been managing lobbies has been stressful experience since it's swapped hands.

[Dementio]

45min waiting is around two matches including lobby time or three very short ones, which is to be expected with two streams and 7 teams still in the competition, unless the organization chose a bad order to do the matches in. The waiting time is especially long when you end your match quickly, while the other matches, the ones that will determine who your opponent will be, don't end as quickly. But that is why we have a match timer so at least it won't literally take one hour for only one match to be over.

You don't really have to watch the stream, the referees are updating the brackets live and that includes your next match, even if your opponent has not been determined yet. So you can check the brackets if the match that decides who your opponent will be already has both teams declared, and that will lead to your match starting soon-ish. Because once both teams of a match have been set in the brackets, they are very likely already sitting in a lobby with the timer running.

In the document linked in the op it tells you about all the Information one may need when participating in the SCS, in case the referee isn't already mentioning it in the lobby (does the ref actually have to do that?).

One may question why you join a lobby and then not change your ship to the one you want to take before the lobby timer is able to lock your ship in. Are you saying you were finally ready to decide on your ship when only 30 seconds remained on the clock? Because that could lead to the other team, and maybe some members of the audience, thinking you were going to pull a last second ship change on the enemy team, which would lead to one team being unnecessarily mean to the other, ruining fun to the maximum, which is exactly what this rule is trying to prevent (although ships can be changed last second before the time locks them, but who would do that on purpose, because it would mean getting your own timer running parallel to the ref's lobby timer so you know exactly which second it is going to be).

But then again, the lobby timer sometimes does feel rather short. To me it sometimes feels like the lobby time runs by much quicker than the actual match time, so I can relate when you are talking about only 1 minute being left, so weird.

[Byron Cavendish]

If you're asking if I was intending on doing a last minute switch, then no I absolutely hate that. However as I said by the time I got in there, told my crew the pw. and typed it in TS chat, then alt tabbed back into the game, I had about 30 seconds left on the time-out clock, although I believe there was 3 more minutes of lobby time? Anyway, nothing can be changed in 30 seconds, at least for me.

You don't really have to watch the stream, the referees are updating the brackets live and that includes your next match, even if your opponent has not been determined yet. So you can check the brackets if the match that decides who your opponent will be already has both teams declared, and that will lead to your match starting soon-ish. Because once both teams of a match have been set in the brackets, they are very likely already sitting in a lobby with the timer running.

This is what puzzles me. In my past experiences, the team that was ready for their next matchup first would generally be invited to their lobby beforehand to wait. So that would have been us waiting, expect we weren't. I don't care about that though, not a big deal. But as I said, we were the first game and then I'm fairly certain one of the very later ones. So we were waiting as Ex said, with an estimated 15 minutes (although I was told that many times and I'm pretty sure 45 minutes isn't 15) again that's nitpicking, and I really don't care about that, not trying to get into a thing here.

And yes I think he does have to mention it if the rule has changed, which he admitted was an error on their part, so no worries, shit happens. Keep in mind all I'm doing is providing feedback. You guys do what you want with it, if you're cool with that system that's fine, but it was not enjoyable to be locked out of choosing my build before we had even settled in the lobby, and I did join the second I got my message, and I would say about 2 minutes overall for my team. Just frustrating to wait that long (which is okay normally) and not be communicated to properly about rule changes that would affect my next match. Simply put, my first match had different rules than my second, and that affected our overall performance in the seconds game very negatively. I think thats something that can be addressed better.

When I'm in a 5 minute lobby, I expect either to have that 5 minutes for my disposal, or at least until the last minute (which would make more sense, lock-out at the last minute rather than the first two, when people are coming in), or completely blind picks before we get in. I really do not care for this early lock-out at all.

If not, I'm sure the teams that are okay with that will continue to enjoy competing in SCS, but not me.

[nhbearit]

I'm confused.. The only lock out rule I see in the ruleset says: "Ship loadouts are locked 30 seconds before lobby time runs out. A change during that time will result in a forfeit." So.. what happened?

I'm hoping to try to get a Duck team in next weekend.. but this worries me.

Sidenote: while I'm a little fuzzy on what happened, expecting a team to actively watch a stream in order for you to stay organized is unreasonable. Not difficult; but not something that should be expected.

[Lueosi]

Hello nhbearit, great to hear the Ducks want to compete again. There are no other rules than that you found in the rules document.

Every team gets informed via pm (in-game and if not responding Steam) when their match starts.

[Sammy B. T.]

So what did happen? Bit out of the loop myself and the above posts aren't really answering the question.

[Urz]

Matches from the secondary stream have been uploaded. I've added the links to my previous post.