Author Topic: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm  (Read 83802 times)

Offline Kamoba

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2015, 06:33:14 am »
I agree that just an accel buff would be enough, nothing else, just accel so it's not as sluggish as a galleon...

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2015, 02:01:18 pm »
Acceleration upgrade sounds reasonable given the constraints.

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2015, 06:28:37 pm »
I'd aggre with an acceleration boost

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2015, 04:28:37 am »
At this point, if we want to get anything done with pyra, +1 to accel buffs from me

Offline Hunter.

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2015, 07:37:25 am »
I thought the top speed buff and a slight turning buff sounded more fun, makes ramming riskier but with higher rewards, makes ramming slightly easier and should you miss the ram you aren't COMPLETELY dead as the option to retreat is still there. However the accel buff works too - count me in.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2015, 07:40:59 am »
I thought the top speed buff and a slight turning buff sounded more fun, makes ramming riskier but with higher rewards, makes ramming slightly easier and should you miss the ram you aren't COMPLETELY dead as the option to retreat is still there. However the accel buff works too - count me in.

Realistically speaking, if you want the best results for pyra's balance without testing beforehand the accel buff is our best bet, because Muse has shown us this year that beta testing anything but alliance is not on their schedule.

Offline The Djinn

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2015, 01:22:57 pm »
At this point, if we want to get anything done with pyra, +1 to accel buffs from me

Yep. I'm for trying it.

Offline Dementio

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2015, 07:07:29 am »
I wonder if a higher longitudinal acceleration would be enough already. I kind of don't want a higher turn acceleration for the Pyramidion, because that made its foward guns so strong to begin with, I tell myself.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2015, 10:02:23 am »
We're not advocating for higher turn acceleration. I don't think it needs more vertical acceleration because it has 2.75 while junker has 3.00 and goldfish 3.25. Vertical acceleration is in multiples of .25 and every ship has a unique value.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 10:03:58 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2015, 09:18:48 am »
Long time listener, first time caller. Here are my thoughts on the Hwatcha and the Pyramidion as of late (the Big Spring Patch, or BSP), which have been talked about a lot lately in-game. I'm sure these points have been discussed, but as a former primarily-Pyramidion-pilot (pre-BSP) and a so-pro Hwatcha gunner (pre- and post-BSP), I feel like I can almost objectively criticize and critique this ship and this weapon.

The Hwatcha: I hear a lot of calls in-game about the Hwatcha being overpowered and it requiring a nerf because it's too ubiquitous and effective. But it's not. Yes, it's great at disabling enemy components and making the bad dudes crap themselves with all the daunting repairs. But it's awful versus armor and decent against hull itself. That's a good thing. It's a utility weapon. You disable enemies to help your team. Then, if you're smart, you get another gun on the enemy because you can Hwatcha allllll-daaaay using a Goldfish and you're not going to get a kill against a decent enemy. It'll just be a very long match. I generally fly with and for players of all stripes, colors, and skill levels, and I can tell you that a nub Goldfish captain understands the Hwatcha is great at hitting and annoying an enemy... but you'd be surprised at how ineffectively they use it because they rely so heavily upon it. Most newer pilots only use the Hwatcha and never purposely or purposefully use the side guns. Huge mistake, easily corrected with some helpful tips from more experienced pilots.

Pre-BSP, I loved the Hwatcha and burst and heavy ammunition were REQUIREMENTS. Now... burst still is, definitely, but I rarely find myself using heavy ammo nor asking my gunner to load it up. Heavy ammo on the Hwatcha can't provide the long-range disables that are helpful. But up-close, with burst ammo, the Hwatcha is devastating, and it should be. I only have my gunners use heavy ammo on the Hwatcha now at long range to assist allies who are already stripping armor. No longer can you jack up an enemy ship with heavy ammo at longish ranges. That's good! In short: the Hwatcha is fine. It's still awesome, pre- and post-BSP, but it's not OP. It isn't as useful as it once was with heavy ammo, and that's a GOOD thing. It's lethal because of the constant disables at close range, and that MAKES SENSE. Try not to get into those situations  ;)

(Also: I quickly learned using gunner stamina for reloads is way less helpful than waiting for the long reload and having a better angle. I'm sure many of you will agree. I rarely use stamina for reloads at this point, only if I KNOW I'll be in angle... and I'm not a betting man.)

Now, regarding my baby, the Pyramidion: I think the developers lost their way when it came to the design of the Pyramidion. Someone above alluded to how the Pyra was supposed to be, by design, a ramming ship, or a glass cannon. I agree. And it no longer is. And that's sad. The Pyra now no longer has ... well, anything it's particularly great at, and things it's actively bad at.

Certainly some will disagree, but, as a long-time player with zero competitive experience and plenty of pub experience, here is how I've seen the Pyra taken, treated, and responded to:

The Pyra, like the Goldfish, is a great learning ship. That's where I cut my teeth. They're both straight-forward (literally) ships that can be equipped with understandable loadouts and job descriptions. We all know how the Pyra works: engineer on the bottom, engineer on the balloon, and an engy or gunner on the top-right gun. It's cliche and vanilla and that's GOOD. The Pyra was a ship any moron could fly. And many a moron (and maestro) did. THAT was the problem... too many Pyras. The Pyra was incredibly effective in the right hands, and not a disaster in the wrong hands. When the BSP came out, if I recall correctly, three changes were made: the Pyra's turning ability was nerfed, its horizontal acceleration was nerfed, and its armor was nerfed. As Meat Loaf so eloquently sang, two out of three ain't bad. But as we also know, three's a crowd. I think two of these changes would have been warranted, but that all three together are overkill. And the consensus seems to be... and I agree with it... go back to the original concept for the Pyra. It should be like the Juggernaut in X-Men 3: Once it gets a'goin', it ain't stoppin'. Restore the acceleration so it can ram. Give the armor a slight buff so it can actually make it to its target. BUT. I'm all about the nerf to the turning ability, and I'd even be okay with nerfing it further in the name of restoring the Pyra to a ramming ship. The Pyra should have to get close to be effective, and it should go in guns a'blazin'... and if it swings and misses, well, strike one, you're out, sucker. High risk, high reward. As it is now... it's high risk, likely-death without a very reliable bottom deck engineer and decent shooters. The Pyra has been stricken down as a learning ship because it's now a paper tiger against any experienced enemy. The Pyra nerf made me fly other ships more often, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm having more fun. Gone are my days of charging in at the helm of the RAMMING SPEED and killing my enemies... which, I agree, was too easy because if I missed or whiffed, I could easily recover and kill at close range. Nerf that turning. I'm rambling. I'm sorry.

Off-topic: Oh, and don't get me started on the Squid, which is now the most annoying ship in the game because of its resilience and speed, even in the hands of nubs. I used to HATE flying the Squid because you had to be a REALLY GOOD PILOT to fly one successfully... and if you WERE... you were a force to be reckoned with. And I was awful at maneuvering the thing. But now? I can fly one and do well. It didn't use to be that way! It was high risk, high reward... a ship for the skilled pilots. Hence, it's described difficulty-level in-game. Now everybody flies it because it was buffed too much in the name of allowing it to be flied more often... by people who shouldn't be flying it, like me. I miss being a one-trick-pony. I wish I still sucked at the Squid and I wish I still enjoyed the Pyra... but now the Squid is made of titanium and the Pyra is made of peanut brittle.

Okay, sorry. There are my cents, which I hope make some.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 09:27:21 am by Atruejedi »

Offline Fynx

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2015, 12:55:37 pm »
Hwacha is OP. I'm not going to waste time trying to explain how it changed after the patch, just play the game.

I'd prefer to see a pyra with some crazy max speed rather than acceleration. I'm not particularly interested in making it more viable as in balance in competitive games. I'd prefer to see something that makes the 'how to use that ship' tricky. And viable in a very odd way. That's what makes mines so much fun. It's more important to make ships more fun. No?

I don't want the squid to be nerfed because other ships were nerfed. What's the point. Do something with other ships instead.

Offline -Anakin-

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2015, 01:15:03 pm »
Muse pls nerf fynx

Offline MightyKeb

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Offline Kamoba

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2015, 01:43:57 pm »
Muse pls nerf fynx

+1
Fynx OP. He carried me through many competitive matches.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: "What's wrong with the Pyramidion? What's wrong with the Hwacha?" - Awkm
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2015, 06:50:04 pm »
I had a match yesterday firing burst hwacha from 2 guns on a galleon at another galleon and seeing progress rack up for an achievement 'destroy parts at a distance greater than 1300m. Which is confusing because max range is supposedly 1200m and ridiculous because unlike heavy clip burst can't miss, because it essentially already is but repeated 10-20% of a hwacha barrage is enough to disable.