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Canyon Ambush Map Size

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DJ Tipz N Trix:
For the 2v2 Canyon Ambush, while it is often a decent fight, there is just a gigantic advantage to sitting in your spawn and waiting on the opponent.  The spawn is clear of rocks, unlike the canyon area.  If you die in your spawn, you can respawn and have the advantage on the enemy.  These are two reasons why ships will both camp their spawn and you end up at a disadvantage trying to force conflict by moving into the opponent's spawn.  In addition, there can often be hide-and-seek matches where ships are both moving, trying to find each other, for upwards of 10 minutes. 



I propose cutting off the top row and the bottom 2 rows, and spawning ships on the west and east side of the canyon.  This will force action much more, similar to Duel at Dawn, and make it a lot less advantageous to camp your own spawn.

Daft Loon:
Worth testing i think, maybe only cutting 1/2 and 1 1/2 rows.

It would become compulsory to add a crazy king variant to avoid the cut areas going to waste.

DJ Tipz N Trix:
Well, cut it off for 2v2.  Leave it in for 3v3.

Byron Cavendish:
The issue is more the clouds than the size. When there were fewer clouds, especially in mid then finding each other and setting up engagements was much quicker.

Dementio:
Although I don't dislike the idea of a map with really only canyons (which would make it another Paritan, but that isn't bad), I don't think you and I have seen the same games. Actually being able to find the enemy when both are being silly is an argument I could live with, if the map gets cut off.

However, out of the many matches I have played and watched being played I would say it is harder to camp successfully in your spawn than it is when just moving towards the enemy.

The reason why I say so is because what you called "advantages":

* Area which is clear of rocks:

* This means there is no cover for the camping team.
* A team that uses this to their advantage probably does long range, however there is often not enough time to react to enemies that are prepared and use not the rocks as cover to engage, but the clouds instead.
* For the southern spawn area, which is ridiculously huge, you don't even have to come from up front. You can attack the enemy directly from the side even when they are at the very back of their spawn, with soft and hard cover to boot.
* Ambushes or just "safe" close range engagements are possible even on Dunes. The (spawn-)area in which you can "safely" snipe in Canyon is not even half of Dunes.
* Respawn to gain advantage:

* This may not necessarily count as argument, but teams even in comp have to learn to not spawn in alone to get instantly meatgrinded. Even I, a Rydr, did this mistake rather recently.
* It is often rather predictable where the enemy would spawn once you killed them in their spawn, since the options are rather limited, when you don't want to be shot at the second you respawned.
* Also: Being shot the second you respawn. You cannot react as quickly as the enemy who is fully repaired and rebuffed with the crew already on guns.
* When you die and the enemy is at the end of the map, behind your spawn, you can only spawn with your back turned towards them. That means you either turn around, which results in the enemy already being in brawling distance when you are done, so no sniping, or you run away as fast as you can, but to where? The enemy spawn?
TLDR; The enemy can make as much use of those advantages as you can, if not more so.

I have seen quite a few comp matches where a team camped the spawn and the other tried to outsnipe them. For some reason the campers had less problems there. Then suddenly time is running out while the campers are in the lead and so the non-campers just charged in there and were doing better than the ones that camped. In one match that I remember the campers still won, because the time ran out before they could respawn to die again.
And many matches where Rydr did very well was when we literally camped in the enemy spawn. They were denied one or two areas to spawn in, less they would get shot immediately, which means less tactical advantage and were pushed in a corner when choosing one of the "safe" spawns, limited in their strategies. It is rare that we lost a match once we were in the enemy spawn, because once you are in there, the enemy has rather few options to defend themselves. Duel at Dawn is a prime example of spawn killing, maybe if you would actually gain some invincibility for a few seconds after spawning, it would be better? But that is a topic for another thread.

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