mino push power

[High King Thorgrim]

How does it work? if you focus every pellet on one spot with heavy is there a bigger force or it doesnt matter?

[Queso]

If your shots hit further from the center of gravity of the ship it will spin more.

[BlackenedPies]

He's asking if a concentration of pellets at one point causes more push than a single pellet. I think so but can't confirm.

[Daft Loon]

Assuming each pellet has its own independent push force heavy allows the shots to be further from the center of gravity without any missing resulting in more turning than if some either missed or were closer to center. I dont think there is any way to get more linear push (other than larger clip size)

[BlackenedPies]

Does two pellets hitting a point cause greater push than one pellet hitting the point?

[High King Thorgrim]

Does two pellets hitting a point cause greater push than one pellet hitting the point?

I want to know this also!!

[Extirminator]

Taking into account the fact that with the old heavyclip all the buckshots hit the same spot and still deliver full damage, I am 100% positive that you get the full force with them too. Not to mention that due to really bad game design heavyclip no longer has 100% jitter reduction so that question doesn't apply to heavyclip anymore.

As to the question of if you get more force, when you think about it, if for the example the target was a flat surface - without heavyclip all your buckshots have a spread that is random around the point of 0 jitter, buckshots hitting above,below, left and right to that point. so you will get different sizes of forces that push the ship, with some greater than others. However, because the jitter is completely random, over time you will see that on average they all approach 0 jitter, meaning that it technically has the same push - only less consistent.
So if you want your push force to be more consistent between shots and not only in average, use heavyclip.
It's like taking a chance each shot for a high or low push force, or having a guaranteed medium push force each shot.

[High King Thorgrim]

Taking into account the fact that with the old heavyclip all the buckshots hit the same spot and still deliver full damage, I am 100% positive that you get the full force with them too. Not to mention that due to really bad game design heavyclip no longer has 100% jitter reduction so that question doesn't apply to heavyclip anymore.

As to the question of if you get more force, when you think about it, if for the example the target was a flat surface - without heavyclip all your buckshots have a spread that is random around the point of 0 jitter, buckshots hitting above,below, left and right to that point. so you will get different sizes of forces that push the ship, with some greater than others. However, because the jitter is completely random, over time you will see that on average they all approach 0 jitter, meaning that it technically has the same push - only less consistent.
So if you want your push force to be more consistent between shots and not only in average, use heavyclip.
It's like taking a chance each shot for a high or low push force, or having a guaranteed medium push force each shot.

Thanks! will try the mino more

[Watchmaker]

Does two pellets hitting a point cause greater push than one pellet hitting the point?

Each pellet produces a fixed, independent linear force when it hits, along the vector it is travelling.  Torque results for any hit will then vary based on distance from center of mass.

However, I suppose higher spread will technically cause some of those forces to cancel out when averaged over several pellets (since if they hit at an angle they will, to some extent, be pushing opposite to one another.)  So heavy clip probably nets you a tiny bit of efficiency in this regard.  Based on some quick math, I think you potentially "lose" up to 5% of each pellet's force at maximum range (you don't actually lose it, but that's how much is pushing sideways rather than directly away from you.)  The amount lost however depends on the exact (random) variance applied to that pellet and the distance at which it hits; 5% is an absolute upper bound.

EDIT: Okay, I misread the question slightly.  I think I answered what you *meant* (does two pellets hitting the same point produce more force than two pellets hitting different points?), but the answer to what you *wrote* is "Yes" because each pellet does apply its own force.  The more pellets that hit, the more force applied in total.

[BlackenedPies]

EDIT: Okay, I misread the question slightly.  I think I answered what you *meant* (does two pellets hitting the same point produce more force than two pellets hitting different points?), but the answer to what you *wrote* is "Yes" because each pellet does apply its own force.  The more pellets that hit, the more force applied in total.

Thanks, I meant what I wrote. I wanted to confirm that hypothetically 2 pellets hitting a point causes more push than 1 pellet hitting the same point.

Minotaur reload should be 8 seconds like lumberjack instead of 9 seconds. The lengthy reload is its biggest weakness.

[Crafeksterty]

I support that idea, but then again. Good mino gunners of which i have had did make mid/long range ships have a tough time. With less reload time, as much as i like the sound of it, could make for the enemy ships to have a very difficult time.

[BlackenedPies]

In the hands of a good gunner it can disrupt ships well, but so can the lumberjack consistently at long range with high damage and a shorter reload. It doesn't take long to reorient a ship and I think reducing the reload to 8 seconds will help balance.

The Minotaur has struggled since the nerf and experienced players stopped using it. I use it on brawl galleon and it has a role, but the long reload weakens it.

[Dementio]

It has struggled before the nerf too. In comp one or two pilots that used it said to me that they wished they had another gun.

In public matches, before the nerf, it obviously seemed to be the ultimate weapon.

[DrTentacles]

What might actually help it is buffing damage, and lowering reload. The problem with pre-patch minotaur was that it took so damn long to be effective, and was frustrating to play against. Instead of nerfing it to joke status, if they buffed the damage, it would make kills happen fast enough to reduce annoyance levels, and make it less of a troll weapon.

[BlackenedPies]

At release the minotaur could 1 shot heavy guns with buff heavy clip easily at over 1k. Component damage has been reduced to 350 with buff which still does good damage against guns and engines (I often tell the gunner to aim for specific components). I don't think it needs a shatter damage buff, but it would help and give it wider use as a mid-long support weapon (I'd like a shatter buff but it's not necessary). It doesn't need more piercing damage because each buff shot already does 142 armor damage which is plenty for a heavy weapon. It shouldn't be much better at breaking armor than H carro or lumberjack. Armor strip heavy guns would be OP and Muse said they wouldn't make a piercing heavy gun for that reason. I think the role should be disable and disruption rather than kill, and I like the current amount of piercing.

Balance needs to be done whether it's decreasing reload, increasing shatter/piercing, or something else.