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"Case study": Have you ever lost, because you had a gunner? Or won?

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Dementio:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on July 06, 2015, 09:22:36 pm ---Yes and yes

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--- Quote from: Kamoba on July 07, 2015, 02:08:53 am ---Have lost equally with both and only found one match where I had a gunner and I said at the end of the match that I would have rather have had an engineer..

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May I ask what circumstances you met to lose/win a match, because you had a gunner?




--- Quote from: Kamoba on July 07, 2015, 02:08:53 am ---On the flip side I once had a gunner on Gatling in comp, which was, based on situation...

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It is said that gunners are situational and this is something I find interesting with this "case study", because in the occasional weird and unexpected chain of events, gunner stamina or just that one extra ammo type can save a life, like everything does or could in this game.


--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on July 06, 2015, 09:59:15 pm ---In a lumber spire duel the buff wins, 2 shot balloon pop and extra buffs.

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I have mentioned it somewhere else before that when you set two of the same ships against each other, the one with the buff wins. Probably because they are both fighting in their optimal range and never want to leave it, leading to the guns needing not too many ammo types. If they were to fight differently and in a manner that they are not supposed to, things may go different, but in your example the 3rd engineer would just rebuild the balloon better than the pipe wrench one, who would then shoot the gun with greased in close range. This leads to the obvious: You need more (different) guns on that Spire to have an excuse to use the gunner.

Kamoba:
Blender fish vs blender fish I had a gunner, enemy had triple engineer, on their gun spanner mallet buff. They were able to rebuild their gun faster and keep our (slower rebuilding gun) disabled as well as keep our balloon popped.
Having a spanner mallet buff on the front gun may have been enough to keep us alive long enough for ally to assist, which then it would have just been a battle of the gunners as to who used the most efficient timing of shots, rather than my gunner and ship being walked all over because se couldn't rebuild anywhere near as fast as they could.

Also with a metamidion versus metamidion, my gunner insisted on being gunner (in a comp match) on Gatling, even with the extra range and ability to open fire earlier, we lost because once the enemy trip engi meta got in range they were able to strip armour much faster, even with a hydro dodge, it was still game over..

Buuut I have had scenarios in which the gunner saved my ships arse, commonly on Hades, mine launcher and two or three times on gat...

Queso:
Flak spire. Gunners have in my experience been able to use ammo to their advantage and hit enemies on armor breaks fairly consistently. If the enemy ships did not get destroyed we would have most certainly been rushed down and been killed. I would say we won because of a gunner.

BlackenedPies:

--- Quote from: Dementio ---May I ask what circumstances you met to lose/win a match, because you had a gunner?

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I've won matches due to gunners on lumber and mine launcher because the arm range reduction is very useful. I used to use gunners on hades but I think I would always perform better with a spanner mallet buff. Gunners can make a difference on hades due to the extra 30 meters, but I think 9/10 times a buff engi will do better due to extra buffs, repairs, and damage (higher than greased). I don't find gunners useful on any non arm gun (besides flame), it has a niche use on hwatcha but I always prefer a buff. Gunner has use on heavy flak but a spanner mallet buff can significantly outperform a gunner. Buffed regular is similar to charged with 92.3% of charged dpc and 98.3% dps. If you'll mostly be further ranges then bring charged and if they will rush you then bring a reduction ammo. Heavy guns are very vulnerable to disable and I find the spanner mallet essential. There are many times where I've won simply due to having spanner mallet. Other times I've lost because we weren't dealing enough damage without a gun buff.

I used to use a mine launcher on the lumber spire to give an emergency option for the gunner (and for me to shoot, can be used on bottom next to lumber but I prefer an engi downstairs) but have since switched it to a flare with much greater success. The reason for the banshee isn't for the greased ammo, it's just a bonus. I often tell the banshee to load greased in lumber but by the time it's ready we're outside of arm range due to spire maneuverability. In any lumber spire duel that starts at lesmok range the buff will win. The gunner spire can ambush the buff spire into closer range engagements but in that case the ambushing spire should always win anyways, and the buff will extend the other spire's life and possibly allow them to escape fire. The flare is another big advantage when used correctly. Against lumberjacks I often have the banshee bring spanner mallet to repair balloon. I think that in all situations where lumber spires excel at you're better off with the extra damage, repairs, and buffs from an engi.

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