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"Case study": Have you ever lost, because you had a gunner? Or won?

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Dementio:
And I mean it in the sense of high level, "super try hard" (not necessarily competitive) matches and not that random pub game where you can't expect your crew to be on top of their game.

I am just interested in seeing if anybody actually thought that having had a gunner instead of a 3rd engineer cost them the game or was the right choice after all.

Since most of my ship loadouts are made to work best with gunners and thus make excessive use of as many ammo types as possible I can say I was glad that I had a gunner in most of my matches.

However, there are also ships like the Blenderfish or one particular Mobula setup (which I don't use anymore after the mechanic of the Flamerthrower got changed) were I could not make the most of it, but still won due to superior teamwork, where dps seems to matter less as long as a ship can fulfill its general purpose (e.g.: A gunner can still destroy a balloon in two shots with the Heavy Carronade and doesn't need a buff hammer to do so).

It would also be interesting to see a comparision between before and after Stamina got introduced, if anybody can do that. But it is probably a really rare and desperate situation since pilots on that level are usually able to keep their gun arcs on the enemy, faster reloading not all that fast is and since the 3rd engineers usually stays on the gun, like a gunner would and so doesn't use stamina.

BlackenedPies:
Yes and yes

I've never lost a match specifically due to a buff engi being on a non gunner gun and never won a match specifically due to a gunner being on a non gunner gun. Non gunner gun being the mine launcher or in some cases the lumberjack.

Gunners can be used for utility when manning multiple guns but I generally build ships around maximizing the potential of a spanner mallet buff engi. Post stamina is different so I can't attest to if the extra arcs ever won a match on a non gunner gun, but I don't think it makes a big difference over a good pilot and spanner mallet buff.

That said, having a gunner doesn't always hurt and there are ways to maximize their potential. Ships can be built around gunners and around buff engineers. Spanner mallet buff is usually the better choice for maximizing main damage potential.

BlackenedPies:
An example is lumber spire. I used to bring a gunner because the extra ammos are useful to reduce arm range. I have since switched to buff and perform much better. I've been using a banshee downstairs (hades top) for a few reasons: more hull+armor dps than artemis, more disable and armor dmg than light flak, and greased ammo (excellent arcs too). If necessary the banshee engi (usually wrench buff) loads greased in lumber. This usually isn't needed because spires have good acceleration (double pyra accel) especially with a buffed main engine. The extra repair power greatly increases survival with the option of either helping top deck or bottom when repositioning. Buffed spire OP and engi stamina is good.

The point is I find on lumber spire the extra ammos are unnecessary compared to a spanner mallet buff. In a lumber spire duel the buff wins, 2 shot balloon pop and extra buffs. In the situations that lumber spire is best at you're better off by using the advantages of a spanner mallet buff.

Squidslinger Gilder:
Never really ran with Gunners in competitive. With exception of Munkers of course. For Munkers I feel a loss came as a result of just lack of practice on a build from just everyone, not just the gunner or engineers. However, most of the time losses came as a result of neither and were actually either buggy game mechanics or rubberbanding. Nothing anyone can really do when your ship is rubberbanding across the map or velcroing into things. After those I'd say it would come down to lack of unity between crews and captains.

Kamoba:
Have won when I've had gunners on my ship on Hades, mine launcher and even H-carro.
Have won with triple engineer loadout.
Have lost equally with both and only found one match where I had a gunner and I said at the end of the match that I would have rather have had an engineer.. On the flip side I once had a gunner on Gatling in comp, which was, based on situation (Gilders Munker!) gave us the range of lesmok Gatling, keeping us out of mine reach long enough to harass the Munker while Ightrill pushed in...

So have experienced both the extremes where once I felt having a gunner was the wrong choice, and where having a gunner was the only reason we survived...

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