Author Topic: My first 4 months of GOIO  (Read 30336 times)

Offline MagKel

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My first 4 months of GOIO
« on: June 10, 2015, 09:33:46 pm »
Here is what I wrote on my first month of GOIO and guess what: almost everyday I logged in and played.

tl:dr
Upon entering my fifth month and 365th hour of game time, I would like to share my thoughts and experience with the community, from game one to today

The Good
- The game hasn't lost its charm, if not it increased as I now enjoy more sophisticate things.
- I informally and formally trained a few players that later on became good players. I still fly and chat with many which fills me with pride.
- I saw the game evolve, I felt the changes and I witnessed how the community grudgingly evolved to adapt and create new builds.
- Oh, the mines.

The Bad
- The competitive scene struggles under the constrains of game modes and tools that are not adequate. Also the lack of intermediary leagues don't allow new teams to enter the spotlight and gain meaningful experience competitive wise. Let me put it plainly: there are some awesome teams, people that nobody wants to face off in a match. they are the equivalent of the Grand Masters of chess and their victories are so soul crushing that once you get stomped by them, you don't want to go back through that trail. i am happy for them, and i will try to reach their level, but they also destroy competition which means that, as of today, nobody signs up because defeat is assured. hence we need lower tier leagues that would play for a chance to fight them. We need an America's Cup model.
- Player count is still too low, which means that MMR is again ruining everybody's fun. When the online counter drops we need to go back to the lobby list. If you are afraid that this would crush the servers, well, you are wrong because if the servers can hold 3000 people they can for sure hold visible lobbies for 250 players.
- Disruptive behavior is unacceptable. Give an achievement for accepting load-outs, create a parallel level that describes how nice you are or anything that will promote collaborative behavior from a new player. You can always leave a ship you don't like but you can't drop a player that stubbornly wants to be second gunner on a squid.
- Capture the Flag. I haven't seen it yet.



1. Here comes the block list. I blocked some people. not because they were noisy in the lobby (I do believe the prime reason for blocking) but because I didn't like they personality. Maybe I was wrong, maybe we just didn't match in the right way but if I go back to the list and look at it, 90% of them haven't played in months. There are some notorious exceptions of people who still play and sometimes magically appear on my ship, but overall it is a sign that I became increasingly exclusive in my choice of ship mates, willing to jump to another or join a friend's game rather that stay. I was blocked too as I discovered when trying to join some games.

2. Friends in high places provide high expectations. I befriended high level players and learned a great deal, I still do. yet I entered a different stage in my game where failure is when things that are not flawless. I was required to keep ships alive in 2 v 1, I was required to snipe components from the other side of the map or as a pilot to carry daring maneuvers that would save the match. Those would not be considered surprising successes but the normal course of battle, giving the game a different perspective. If before I would have been excused a mistake, now I am absolutely not. There is no more learning credit for me. Hence my "fun" changed dramatically: Everything is routine now, public lobbies feel like breezing through simple, linear affairs where all the cards in every deck are exposed. Only when high level, organized players are facing off there is a true thrill, a true desire for victory. I know the ins and out of every ship, where to jump, where to stand waiting or the chem cycling and reload weapon patterns. more and more games are silent, murderous affairs against unorganized, assorted crews that don't stand a chance. The maps too are now familiar grounds with established spots and trails. the "fun" now is trying new things, new places and experiment with the knowledge that everybody on board knows how to tank in case things go south.

3. Tales of TB and 404. My life has always been split between North America and Italy and it is surprisingly showing it too in GoIO. TB and 404 are the people for which in those four month I connected to a level that I can truthfully call them friends. I care for them, I like playing with them more than with anyone else and recognize their voices without having to look up who's who, which is no easy feat. My job and my career is full of evolving teammates that became friends and now GoIO is rightfully one of those  places. It is an easy living I must say, the lack of strife sometimes is unsettling (man I wish I had this at the fire-station) but this is much the result of the leadership of Byron, LogHalley, Neusy, Trivee, Murkub and FranckM. Both clans display very distinct personalities molted in the years and each of the leaders create consensus in their own way. Nobody can understand my feeling of relaxation after a day of giving orders left and right from been steered around in such an harmless environment. It is truly a bliss.

4. Steam sales, Developers and DDos attacks. The last month or so has been quite a complicate one for Muse games and I expressed already my opinions before, so all I can say now is: Your job is hard, we know it, you know it. Don't let the attrition take away your energies and keep looking forward: We will cry, we will complain, we will say mean words but all you need is already in your domain, slowly growing. You reached this point thanks to superior willpower and passion and that is something nobody on earth will ever take away from you. All the players can do is stand back and watch but if we log in and play your creature every day, that is a testament of love that again nobody on earth will ever be able to take awaty from you. Hold those two treasures close and remember them often.




Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2015, 12:05:53 am »
Fair assessment.

One of the problems with opening lower and higher leagues is participation. When noob friendly tournaments happen, they haven't always responded. There also haven't been limits on who can and can't join because there is no real ranking system which determines a vet vs noob.

It is sad that when they have entered, they've entered during high competitive events. When that happens, they get stomped so badly that they just give up and dissolve. Even when they show potential, after the event is over, you never see them again. Which is typical behavior these days and why most new players have a match completion at around 50%.

Ultimately, COOP mode will likely bring the best solution as players who can't cut it in PVP, will go to PVE and they'll flourish. Likewise players who get good in PVE will cross over into PVP.

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 07:21:00 am »
Nice summary Mag. As for the situation in competitive. I've mentioned previously that I've analyzed the history of the SCS and the picture that emerges is similar to what you describe, two teams rate so highly that if both enter the SCS, one or other is very likely to win the event. One of them hasn't entered the event in a while, but the other has a very, very high win rate when they enter. Lets not beat around the bush, the Rydrs are an exceptionally strong team. There are a few teams that are competitive and have an outside chance. Teams that just signed up that week almost always get utterly slaughtered. A look at the history tells you it takes weeks, months even, to build up a effective competitive team that can operate in the middle tier, never mind the top.
Team entering the competition need to keep that last bit in mind. I think it is best to treat the first 4 or 5 SCS you enter as very intense skrims, a chance to play against the top teams and learn the ways they pick you apart.
With so few teams something like an "America's Cup" is going to be problematic, and it really isn't clear how you would divide up the teams anyway. Lets say we held a lower tier tournament, what would the entry requirements look like? No teams or players that came say top two in the last SCS? Even the second place team likely has subs these days and the subs pool every team draws from isn't that large. I suspect with two or four regular rosters missing you would have very few teams in a tier two event. That said inexperienced teams need some intermediate goals and rewards, something to strive for. I know Logic is looking into this.

Offline MagKel

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 09:18:42 am »
So, I discussed today with the person who organizes the firefighter's Futsal championship (the target is about 12-15 teams), that is in a situation surprisingly similar to GoIO's competetive scene. he asked a few poignant questions that I relay to the forum here:

1. How many people know of SCS outside this forum? If many do, the problem is interest in participating, if a few do the problem is visibility.

2. What is the prize for winning? Without an effective way of stroking the ego of players, the energy dedicated to reach the top is not worth.

3. How often the games are played? Too often leads to repetition, while few games don't create what he called the "championship mentality".

4. How are the top teams divided from the upcoming amateurs? Without skill segregation the concept of fair game goes down the hill, creating resentment in the lower tier that will feel cheated for dedicating time and resources to a stacked game.



Now, my suggestions are:

1. Define competitive a group of players belonging each to a Team (not a clan, a team) of max 12 players. Essentially another layer of socialization with a distinctive color just like CA, Mods, Wanted. In order to be colored as Team, they need to participate to a competitive events as i describe later regardless of results. I make it sound easy but it is not. it would just take 10 teams to double the population as it is right now.

Because: The lack of prize is superseded by ego stroking feels of "being special" at the cost of dedication, while new players get the impression that GoIO is a lively E-Sport where they can participate too. The "team color flair" could be a powerful retention force of players because you can be part of a clan as long as the clan lets you regardless of game time but you can only be part of a Team if you show up and participate. It would also remove the need for long term planning since a Team can drop in and out without much trouble.

2. Make a tab on the home page, on the right side of the button "play" where the current rank of competitive teams is displayed, a link to the next scheduled matches and a simplified league table. 1 Point for a victory, 1 extra point for winning the event. it could look as such:
[ClanTag] - Team Name - N° of partecipated Events - Total Points

Because: This is where new players, the scrubs, realize that there is a competitive scene and the game can be deeper than wobbling in the skies. It is also a Everest summit that will attract the people who love the game thus improving the overall quality of the gameplay.

3. let the players manage the competitive scene for we have some highly motivated people that would gladly spend their time updating, coordinating and recording the games so that it would look nice, sharp and attractive. it is a win for the popularity of the game if competitive gains traction and loses the elitist and secretive aura it has now. SCS is not competitive because there is no ranking, no prize, no commitment.

Because: Competitive is not something that the devs need for the game, it is a extra, but it should be viewed as an added, free marketing tool that evolves by its own gravity. All it needs is a little push. high level games are a beauty to watch and they should be viewed by the management as free public relations. DOTA is popular because of the competitive scene, not the other way around.

4. Differentiate entry level from top tier. America's cup is very simple: new teams (5-6) play in strict controlled conditions (forced builds) among themselves for access to a couple of tickets for the LV Cup. In the Luis Vuitton cup the established teams (who played the lower tier previously) and new teams match against each other in a league based system with their ships (free builds) for the title of Challenger. The Holder of the America's Cup then plays against the Challenger. Whoever wins will be the new Holder for the next tournament.

how I would apply this to GoIO

First tier: New teams play every month in the Applicant League in timed 2v2 forced builds round robin (a list of the available builds is provided with one month in advance) for two spots in the SCS League. Forced builds are used for equalization.

Second tier: Teams who came first or second in the AL gain a special color and their name shows up in the home page table. Every week SCS League is a timed 2v2 free builds double elimination tournament to which every Team except the Holder can participate. The points are 1 for participating to a match, 1 for winning the SCS.

Special Games: VIP, Squid Races or other special one time events accrue 1 point for participating to it and 1 point for winning the event, 1 extra point of the event requires forced builds. The Holder can participate in them.

Third Tier: The top 4 teams every two months fight on the last Saturday of the month in the Challenger League, a timed 2v2 free builds round-robin tournament that doesn't accrue any point. The winner becomes the Challenger and battles on the day after in a best-of-three playoff for the title of Holder.

Which leads to this food pyramid:

1 Holder team - Must play against the Challenger every two months
4 Challenger teams - Top four teams of the Second Tier. Must play in the Challenger League every two months.
X Competitive teams - Must accrue at least 10% of the points available every month or loses the Competitive status.
X Applicant teams - Free signup

the points for access to the Challenger League are:
1 Point for each SCS game played
1 Point for each SCS tournament won
1 Point for each special event with free builds participated
2 Point for each special event with forced builds participated

the time schedule is:
- Every week Applicant teams play against each other, at the end of the month the two top teams gain Competitive status.
- Every weekend SCS games are played.
- Special events do not follow a specific timeline but must be posted at least one month in advance.
- Every two months, during the last week the Challenger League takes place.
- Every two month, on the last Sunday the Challenge takes place.

Apologies for the telegraphic post in the end but i gotta go to work.


Offline Dr Brobotnik

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 09:19:31 am »
Half of your problems honestly sounds like you need a new game or just take a break. It's natural.
As for the rest, I agree that high level play is less social, and for the worse. I've been in a public Rydr group, with people like Ayetach, and it's so much planning and so little prattling - interestingly, I have been informed by the very same that Rydr's specifically use teamspeak to communicate, which explains the silence, but that's a mentality that you should break in a public play. Fragmenting people in a game that is all about chemistry between crewmates makes absolutely no sense. Why not just remove the party function entierly, then?

But my recommendation: take a break, see how many of your friends from GoI that stays in touch with you, come back when you feel less burned out on the game, and hopefully they will still all be there.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 09:50:30 am »
I agree with most that you said, although (perhaps due to my longer stay here) I tend to see flaws more than strenghts of GOIO.

To the flaws I'd personally add lack of content. I mean, we all know that Devs work hard and do a lot of amazing stuff, but still the amount of stuff in game (especially maaaaaaaaaaaaps!) makes you wonder if game is perhaps in open access/beta phase.

About the competetive scene - I've once suggested some kind of junior league for people below 1000 matches (and perhaps a second, even more noobish league of people below 500 matches). But GOIO competetive scene is a subject-river* and I'm not really a person to talk since... I don't follow the competetive and I never were in it.

*do you say that in english? it means it's vast, huge

Oh, and I love how Brobotnik's way of fixing things is telling more experienced (perhaps, yeah, more burn out people) to stop playing instead of actually discussing the argument they are making.
Sarcastic comments aside, I don't know how not playing the game will help fixing competetive scene, problems with matchmaker during low player count or people being uncooperative assholes in the lobby.
Some people like the social aspect of the game.

Caring is sharing :)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 09:56:27 am by Mr.Disaster »

Offline Kamoba

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 10:16:12 am »
Regarding all the points of the competitive scene...

There is so much I want to say about it, but I don't yet have time to type it all, the key points I want to single out are:

The SCS is a weekly skirmish and not one of the major tournaments, a competitive match where teams can practice their competitive strategies, this is why it has no prize, it is not one of the major leagues, just a skirmish, which all are welcome (and encouraged) to take part in.
During a period of time.SPQR and Ryders stopped playing every second week in an attempt to adress the issue of people not taking part due to fear of being "stomped" and both those teams are currently having a break from.the scene, now is the time when anyone interested in trying competitive really really should, and remember, the SCS is not about winning, yeah it sucks to loose, but out of the times I've won and the times I've come close, the losses were by far the more rewarding experiences!
Best example is the TT vs SPQR semi-finals after the scs's first draw! The rules of the draw were against TT by default, we needed to win a flawless 5-0 victory to go on, we took double meta pyramidion, spqr took galleon and meta...
4-0 and then we made our mistake, a mistake so small it could have been avoided, but then the score went to 4-1, we lost, heart breaking but I shit you not, never has a more thrilling match taken place and I can guarantee it was fun for the viewers too! Final score 5-2, we may have lost the SCS but we won the round!

The bigger tournaments do have prizes, in the forms of badges, free items etc. A fine example, the upcoming Aerodrome!
The third of its kind, and by hell I hope I can get my crew ready and in shape in time for the event!


I want to answer every point individually but I have stuff to do...

But the biggest point I could possibly hope to make is what was told to me by one of our respected vet players and a legend in his own right in this game:
Don't be the best, beat the best.

Every team should get involved in the scs, and as often as they can afford, don't be scared to loose, hell if you do go against Lueosi and Dementio, ask them nicely and they'll be the first people willing to give you advice and constructive criticism!


Offline Schwalbe

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2015, 10:30:34 am »
Why not just remove the party function entierly, then?

Yer kidding me - right?
Right?

Listen, Brobotnik.
Move you toilet outside, on the busy street. Make it functional, and use it exclusively.
That's the equivalent of your idea.
Jeszcze chwila, a nie zdzierżę i przypierdolę w ten durny pysk...

I liked social aspects of this game - long time ago before first sales (I bought the game for the full price). Now I'm just plain fed up.
If you don't like that people are "silent" for you, then leave the bloody room and find someone to play/talk/run/whatever, I don't know how non-introverts have fun. Just leave people alone, accept that somebody might have different opinion - because you try to impose yours ONCE MORE.

Yes, we heard your complaints about "silence".
Yeah, we got your points. Like: 3 times.
And it's not like people had not tried to reason with you, but you either failed to understand or denied it without trying to comprehend.
God, how I hate this attitude.

If you don't understand the idea of "privacy" - like, having a party chat to speak with closer friends about things NOT FOR YOUR EARS - then ask somebody for dictionary. Not for you to read it, bet it won't help. For that person to smack you in the head with it. Keep repeating until something changes.

Now I'm awaiting for another accusations of "barbarism" or "unjustified hostility".


Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 10:35:40 am »
The party thing actually kinda went over my head. So I'll just give an example

People from various countries use party chat so they can talk with their friends in their native language without  disturbing other players. Please tell me you're not 'that' stupid to believe it's a good idea to remove that possibility.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 10:55:22 am »
Brobotnik, firstly teamspeak and mumble are primarily used to increase the social happenings between clan members, and from a competitive point of view, the in game chat (which us the steam chat) can experience upto 5 seconds delay, third party programs do not have this incredibly huge drawback which means communications are instant, which makes a big difference in competitive play, thus the Ryders and many, many, many other clans use of such programs.

The party feature, its needed, I like how you're trying to think outside the box about increasing social opportunities, but the party feature allows people to socialise on an intimate and private level, yet the join party feature means strangers are not blocked out from private parties...

Also the internet has too many trolls to encourage an open world of free communication..

Offline Extirminator

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 10:59:08 am »
Now I'm awaiting for another accusations of "barbarism" or "unjustified hostility".




Jeszcze chwila, a nie zdzierżę i przypierdolę w ten durny pysk...

Just gonna leave the translation for that here:
One more moment and I won't be able to stop myself from fucking punching your fucking stupid face...

Good day everyone.

Offline Dev Bubbles

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 11:45:40 am »
Hi Magkel, thank you so much!  With lower population we could look at the threshold trigger for show all again.  And for more stuff to encourage positive behavior, I completely agree.  I already noted your ideas on trello, and Matt is coming up with something similar as well. 

Offline Dev Bubbles

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 11:49:36 am »
Hey guys, I want to once again remind everyone to keep it civil, and to argue your points without personally attacking others.  If we strive to be a welcoming and friendly community, this type of public attacks on members of the community destroys everything we're trying to build.  We'll be more proactive in moderating offensive personal attacks, but please spare us of using moderation tools.  It's also more time and effort that we're not doing other things.  Thanks, Howard

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 11:52:24 am »
Any chance we can drag this back on topic? Lets play the ball and not the man, and try to keep our emotions off the table regardless of histroy.

Mag I like you ideas, and I'm going to direct Logic this way to take a look, but I think there are practical problems here.

As for removimg party chat. Some people play with thier friends and talk in party chat, anyone who has flown with me for long knows I typically last less than a match in those things because I cant run my ship with that much chatting going on. If you don't like the way someone plays, don't play with them. That includes if they are in ts or a party. We don't need features removed to prevent this behavioir because a subset of players dislike it when there is an easy fix.

That said I do wish there was a "don't put me on this persons team" button. There are players who I don't want to block who I also don't want to fly with.

As for teams in ts lacking sociability, those ts and mumbles are the loudest places in GoI. If you are an asset, and are not disruptive, most teams will give you access. They often aren't social spaces though. If you just want to horse around a Rydr ship mid practice isn't the place for you.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: My first 4 months of GOIO
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 12:50:12 pm »
Quote
I was blocked too as I discovered when trying to join some games.
I wasn't aware being on some body's blocked list prevented you from joining their game. I attributed any failure to "Join Crew" to the lobby being full or the player being in the crew form match making Queue.

As for the rest of the summery, it was a very good read. I have had similar experiences especially with regard to your "Friends in high places provide high expectations." One of the main joys I get out of this game is being on a fully optimized ship, where every one is doing their job flawlessly.

Once you have had that experience it is hard to go back, which explains the increased blocking of players who just don't get it. Don't feel bad about filling your blocked list with uncooperative players who eventually quit the game. This game is not for everyone. Even if you took the time to try to mentor everyone as others once mentored you, the effort would be wasted on some. File the ones who refuse to cooperate in your blocked list and be done with them.

When flying with random newbie crews I get told "you are too bossy, lighten up it is just a game" and "you are the best captain we ever had" for doing the exact same thing.