How about we give gunner a 2nd engineer slot?

[Hoja Lateralus]

Someone mentioned this idea in different thread and I think it's worth discussing. I'll give few reasons for:

1) Engineer is overdutied, gunner is underdutied

Engineer must do an awful lot on the ship while gunner usually basically sit on his gun and do very little, wrenching the nearby stuff sometimes. Having another tool would make him more useful on ship and take some of the responsibilities from engineer. Then for instance engineers could shoot more = have more fun.

2) Engineer has 'default' ammo, gunner don't have default repair tool

Although engineer has one gunner slot he actually also carries standard ammo, so he has two choices. Gunner carry only one engineer tool, while engineering requires more various tools like special tool for firefighting. Another way of dealing with this could be making the wrench 'default' engineering tool (engineer being an exception here?)

3) It would add depth and make gunner more viable

Gunner could have multiple interesting half-engineer loadouts that would allow him to help with repairs or buffing. Perhaps 2-gunner build would be even possible (although possibly not meta).

I realise that there are arguments against also, so let's discuss.

[BlackenedPies]

Before stamina I think this was the simplest way to make gunners viable along with a slight change to gun buffs. Gun buffs should last longer but take much longer to buff requiring more maintenance and prioritizing. Gun buffs wouldn't be viable against disable so spanner mallet gunners would be superior in disable fights. 2 tools is also the only way to make double gunner ships work.

Since the introduction of stamina I have a different idea for gunner balance- which I wouldn't necessarily want to be implemented: give the new reload mechanic only to gunners and have gunner loaded ammo be permanently loaded. Currently when ammo is loaded by a fellow engi it lasts forever but last I checked gunner ammo disappears after one clip. Engi and pilot would have to be on the gun at the end to load ammo but gunners could let it auto reload.

[Daft Loon]

I would prefer to see gunner made more specialised than less, it seems to me like this would turn gunner into a novelty engineer more than its own class. On a related note i could get behind somehow making gun repair something better done by a gunner without making gunner better at general repairs.

I've started another thread for the gunner as ammo provider idea to avoid an instant derail on this one by posting a more lengthly response to that.

[The Mann]

On a related note i could get behind somehow making gun repair something better done by a gunner without making gunner better at general repairs.

This is a good idea. I like it and salute you.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Just make Heatsink able to remove all stacks instead of just a few, done. There is your 2nd engineer tool built right into an ammo. Even if you gave them another tool for engineering, it would likely be used for fire fighting or quicker rebuild. Spanner in my book has already proved it's worth as a viable alternative to Wrench. Even if people used wrench, they'd still likely load in a fire fighter. The only tool that would be missing is buff.

[ZnC]

Just make Heatsink able to remove all stacks instead of just a few, done. There is your 2nd engineer tool built right into an ammo.

This is an interesting suggestion, with the new reload mechanics it would give some cool reactionary gameplay for the gunner.

+1 for sending this idea in.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Exactly. Honestly when I've been gunning recently, I've been using it almost entirely for reloads. Sometimes for arcs but pilots I gun for are so used to getting angles that I don't really need to dump it on arcs as much. Having quick reload is often better. Quicker reload ability, plus the ability to basically set and walk away means when fires happen, all a gunner would have to do is set ammo before the stacks get too high and walk away. The gun would reload heatsink on it's own and put itself out. One less thing for an engineer to worry about.

The downside of course is, now you've got heatsink loaded in there and that will impact dps.

[Hoja Lateralus]

Just make Heatsink able to remove all stacks instead of just a few, done. There is your 2nd engineer tool built right into an ammo.

This is an interesting suggestion, with the new reload mechanics it would give some cool reactionary gameplay for the gunner.

+1 for sending this idea in.

Exactly this. This is interesting and maybe not as deep but also not as game-breaking as my suggestion. 100/17, would like to see this in DevApp. Perhaps heatsink could be nerfed/buffed to have smaller dps but faster reload. On the other hand it makes gunner extinguish only guns, so not much of duties from engineer are transfered.

@BlackenedPies

I think this is the opposite way of doing things - making gunner better by nerfing engineer.

[Richard LeMoon]

My suggestion is still this: Allow gunner to get on an overheated gun using stamina, and remove the increased gun arcs. Change heatsink to reduce fires at X per second, so it does not get rid of fires right away, but would over time. With the new reload mechanic, pop stamina, get on a hot gun, hit heatsink, and leave. The rest takes care of itself.

I also suggested a tool a while back called the 'Impact Wrench' (or babysitter). It rebuilt and repaired faster than a pipe wrench, but had a cycle shorter than the spanner. In effect, you could only repair one thing very fast because you could not leave it. Unlike the pipe wrench, you could not give things a hit and run off for 5 seconds. 

[Koali]

I like the impact wrench idea, but I think it could be swapped for a Gun Repair Kit, a special device purpose-built to fix guns, and little else. Although... It would probably start to get confusing for new players.

[Hoja Lateralus]

My suggestion is still this: Allow gunner to get on an overheated gun using stamina, and remove the increased gun arcs. Change heatsink to reduce fires at X per second, so it does not get rid of fires right away, but would over time. With the new reload mechanic, pop stamina, get on a hot gun, hit heatsink, and leave. The rest takes care of itself.

That would do

[Ashunera]

The idea to make heat sink stronger is a neat one, I do prefer it over giving gunners a 2nd engi tool since that would make them less distinct. On the other hand it might help reduce the shouts of "I don't need two gunners"