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Heavy Carronade

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Lanliss:
First off, I do not think that something being used more is a reason to nerf it. Does not make sense to me. That being said, in terms of a nerf, how does weakening the heavy carro make the light carro more powerful? More viable maybe, but weakening one does not make the other stronger. Another problem I have is ZanC's first post.
--- Quote from: ZanC on March 27, 2015, 05:30:30 am ---
Changing the rate of fire would not help much because buffed Heavy Clip will still take down the Balloon.

--- End quote ---

How is that a reason for a nerf not to work? I may be reading it wrong, but in my head it reads as "making it less useful will not work, because these things that make it more powerful will still make it more powerful." Existing buff items should not be a reason for a nerf not to work, because a nerf will still apply. Sure, they will still deal the damage, but that is what they are supposed to do. If you go to the work to buff a gun, and load heavy into it, you have every right to expect it to deal more damage. As I said, maybe I just read it wrong, and am being completely unreasonable. If so, I am sorry. I can only react to that which I perceive.

Kamoba:
@Lanliss, yes I meant viability.
Basically if the heavy carro became less efficient then there would be less reason to choose heavy carro over light carro, I should have worded it better. :)

Pies: You bring up good points but I am still on the fence of being unsure, the reload time does make sense to me, but I keep thinking, is it needed from a balance pov...
Yes keeping to cover in most maps is very possible and saves the carro from disable, but since you mentioned the gun being too powerful in pub matches, the next thing to keep in mind is, how many pub pilots use cover to their advantage? Not so many, the carronade is powerful in powerful hands, but so is any weapon and ship.

BlackenedPies:
I think it is needed from a balance pov because a competent blender can lock down a pub with too little effort. My concern is simply how easy it is for one pop to be the end. Either balloon locking or escaping balloon lock must be changed for balance. The gap between skill requirements is too much. Dumb easy vs damn impossible.

Sure pubs might not use cover but most pubs can't kill a fish faster than the fish can rush in. One scrub ship won't kill a competent fish at long range. When the fish gets in range scrubs are dead and getting balloon locked is not fun. Pop, die. Fun. The light carro isn't much better. They have incredible range and speed for being shotguns.

Maybe the h carro advantage over light carro should be the speed of the pop. In that case reducing rof wouldn't be right but I don't see a problem with increasing reload. Or are we gonna sit back and say the blender fish is balanced in pub matches. That really helps scrubs stick around. Pubs get instantly balloon locked with no chance of escaping. Someone please explain why that's balanced.

BlackenedPies:
Or how about reducing downward arc? It would require more skill to use and would make it easier to temporarily get guns back on the blender. The ability to stay 15 degrees above and balloon lock is comparatively too much.

None of these suggestions would make carronades any less viable. If any changes were implemented there would be a lot of loud complaining at first while reasonable players explain it's no less viable and only requires playing a bit smarter.

Right now I'm leaning towards reducing down arc. That doesn't sound unreasonable for a gun that keeps them below you. The same could be done with the light carro. Do they even need down arc.

Hoja Lateralus:
It is similar discussion as with flamethrower

Except flamethrower can be (remotely?) easy countered by chemspray. Carronade, when in range, can be only less painful when you take the chute.


--- Quote from: Lanliss on March 27, 2015, 02:54:34 pm ---First off, I do not think that something being used more is a reason to nerf it. Does not make sense to me

--- End quote ---

That's not fully the case. The problem is that there is a tool/solution that is very easy to use but also very powerful. Therefore, many players decide to choose the easy-and-effective option and use mostly that tool/solution. Also it's a matter of scale, what does it mean "used more" - is it used 40% of the time? 50? 70?That's why we got pyramidion nerf, which got like 80ish percent of tournament builds before the nerf (but pyra is still very commonly used ship) and that's why we should at least consider nerfing the carronades.

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