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Hwachafish? What's it good for?

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MightyKeb:
Quick question, I rarely run hwacha with the goldfish and I understand its benefits, but while I havent looked hard enough, I'm under the impression that it doesnt say, "hard" counter most ships as effectively as something like a good blenderfish does against squids, galleons and some junkers.

So what's it good for? It can pretty much devastate a squid I know, but so can blenderfish, pyras are almost immune to disables from front besides their good ole front gun pairs, can be decent against junkers but good ones can use the thin hull, why take out a galleon's broadside when you can blend them to the ground, etc.

David Dire:
As someone who mains Blenderfish and used to swear by Hwachafish only, I can say it can be not as effective as a Blendy, however, it's good if you know your arcs with side weapons and know the reload times of your weapons so you can get a flamer, Gat, or Carro while the Hwacha is reloading. I generally would say you should use it against long range ships, or people that really know what they're doing against a Blenderfish.

It's also good for helping out your teammate should they be someone who gets in trouble a lot. With Carro, if you leave your enemy, they'll get back up in <40 seconds, and ambush while you're helping out an ally ship, but with a disabled ship that has everything burning, or balloon really damage, it's going to take a minute or more to get fixed up enough to attempt pursuit. And you also have the power to completely disable an enemy that is about to kill your teammate, so I'd say it's definitely more of a team orientated build.

I'm pretty sure we actually went on a 5+ winstreak with no deaths as captains, and I was a Hwachafish the entire time.

Hoja Lateralus:
Well, comparing it to carronade is pointless because carronades are overpowered (or baloon repair/rebuild is underpowered), especially against non-veteran players (take carro-flamer pyra and you'll see a flood of reports and "you got hax" stuff).

You've got a point though. Perhaps hwacha does more direct damage and can disable multiple components in one barrage, and that's its' advantage? Some people use hwacha as finisher, taking hwachafish with double gat. Disabling all engines at once can be pretty useful, since with baloon disabled you can still turn and try to run away/hide.

MightyKeb:

--- Quote from: Mr.Disaster on March 13, 2015, 08:09:31 am ---Well, comparing it to carronade is pointless because carronades are overpowered (or baloon repair/rebuild is underpowered), especially against non-veteran players (take carro-flamer pyra and you'll see a flood of reports and "you got hax" stuff).

You've got a point though. Perhaps hwacha does more direct damage and can disable multiple components in one barrage, and that's its' advantage? Some people use hwacha as finisher, taking hwachafish with double gat. Disabling all engines at once can be pretty useful, since with baloon disabled you can still turn and try to run away/hide.

--- End quote ---

Well, carronade is alot more reliable in that you have the vertical control in the engagement and can easily position yourself to a spot where your opponent is left helpless until he just dies, whilst with a hwacha it all depends on your gunner hitting the right components and if he doesnt you're at a fair disadvantage for the next 10-12 seconds. I agree though, H carro needs a nerf more than gat mortar. Gat mortar essentially only has 1 gun on you until your hull is down, and even then it has 1.5 guns on front because gatling has done its main job, you have absolutely no control of the engagement as a gat mortar, you're just there to get kills and this makes you very vulnerable to both ranged and disable weaponry, hence why Kamoba tends to stress artemis being a good counter.

Dementio:
I like Hwachafish more than the Blenderfish, mainly because you only really need that one burst hwacha to disable most of a ship and then it has to rebuild more than just one balloon. In my opinion, the hwacha disable shows effect much quicker than when a carronade destroys a balloon. Pyramidion shooting your ally? Instantly disable it, maybe ram it too and use some side guns. Ship running away from you? It will probably lose 2/3 engines, enough to catch up.

I like to say that the hwacha is more effective, because you can actually destroy the enemy guns. For example a long range Galleon is trying to snipe your ally, that carronade will not make the enemy lumberjack lose arcs. Sure you can ram that Galleon, but you could also use a side carronade on that Hwachafish or gatling to get a quicker kill.

The thing where it can only destroy front guns of a Pyramidion is actually something where it is better than the Blenderfish, because the Pyramidion can easily disable the heavy gun, and for me it is much easier to destroy the front guns than the balloon, so I see hwacha as more effective here, it also not impossible to destroy one side engine too.



The Hwachafish doesn't "hard"-counter anything (and carronades do not beat everything, but that is probably just me), but I say it makes ships more immobile. When a Blenderfish keeps destroying the balloon of the enemy, the enemy can still have some guns shooting back (e.g.: loch mines, if anybody does that; harpoons; the enemy's carronade) or even use terrain to make it harder to maintain carronade arcs. The Hwacha fish needs to hit with one good clip and the enemy is not going anywhere and not shooting anything, it can also support in long range!

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