Important information the game fails to explain.

[Lanliss]

As, that was auto correct. People responded before I could edit it, since I did not notice it when I first posted it.

Do not us Lochnager* on flamer

Abuse the hell* out of mino before it gets nerfed.

[GeoRmr]

[Lanliss]

That is amazing, thank you. We need more info pics like this. Maybe that would help new players learn these things.

[Sarabelle Marlowe]

*sigh* It seems the exact same problem, only worded differently.

What is boils down to is that people don't want to wait until new players get good. So many threads and so many discussions are about the new players and what to do with them.

*Stands on Soapbox*

Guys, we were all the newbie at some point. We all didn't start the game knowing the best path for chem spray cycles were, or what ammo is the best for which gun with what build. Heck even now I argue with people about ammo types because some are honestly up to preference. And that's something you can't learn except through experience.

I agree the tutorials could use a bit of spit and polish. I agree fully that there is more information that can be used in them.

However...

I will state firmly that even if you had all the information, knew what did what, there are things you can not learn until you practice them. When I first started this game, I read forums. I went through threads, I watch pro play before I even played one game so I could get a leg up. And it was not enough for my first few games. Because even though I knew more then most my level, I needed to actually put the information I had to use to learn it right. I got good because I met players that were willing to teach me, and stayed because I made friends with them.

Gun arming times with different ammo, cool down rates with different tools with different parts, the turning and velocity for each ship....only by playing the game can you get the feel of it. No tutorial can give you all the information in one go and expect it to stick doing it once. You have to learn by doing and practicing it. And with the player pool as small as it is, it's something that people need to understand and work with.

If the new player truly wants to learn, and you as a veteran do not teach them, it is your failing, not theirs.

*Gets off soapbox, equips chem-spray*

[Kamoba]

*sigh* It seems the exact same problem, only worded differently.

What is boils down to is that people don't want to wait until new players get good. So many threads and so many discussions are about the new players and what to do with them.

*Stands on Soapbox*

Guys, we were all the newbie at some point. We all didn't start the game knowing the best path for chem spray cycles were, or what ammo is the best for which gun with what build. Heck even now I argue with people about ammo types because some are honestly up to preference. And that's something you can't learn except through experience.

I agree the tutorials could use a bit of spit and polish. I agree fully that there is more information that can be used in them.

However...

I will state firmly that even if you had all the information, knew what did what, there are things you can not learn until you practice them. When I first started this game, I read forums. I went through threads, I watch pro play before I even played one game so I could get a leg up. And it was not enough for my first few games. Because even though I knew more then most my level, I needed to actually put the information I had to use to learn it right. I got good because I met players that were willing to teach me, and stayed because I made friends with them.

Gun arming times with different ammo, cool down rates with different tools with different parts, the turning and velocity for each ship....only by playing the game can you get the feel of it. No tutorial can give you all the information in one go and expect it to stick doing it once. You have to learn by doing and practicing it. And with the player pool as small as it is, it's something that people need to understand and work with.

If the new player truly wants to learn, and you as a veteran do not teach them, it is your failing, not theirs.

*Gets off soapbox, equips chem-spray*

Salutes! o7 <3

You should stay on the soap box.

[MightyKeb]

*sigh* It seems the exact same problem, only worded differently.

What is boils down to is that people don't want to wait until new players get good. So many threads and so many discussions are about the new players and what to do with them.

*Stands on Soapbox*

Guys, we were all the newbie at some point. We all didn't start the game knowing the best path for chem spray cycles were, or what ammo is the best for which gun with what build. Heck even now I argue with people about ammo types because some are honestly up to preference. And that's something you can't learn except through experience.

I agree the tutorials could use a bit of spit and polish. I agree fully that there is more information that can be used in them.

However...

I will state firmly that even if you had all the information, knew what did what, there are things you can not learn until you practice them. When I first started this game, I read forums. I went through threads, I watch pro play before I even played one game so I could get a leg up. And it was not enough for my first few games. Because even though I knew more then most my level, I needed to actually put the information I had to use to learn it right. I got good because I met players that were willing to teach me, and stayed because I made friends with them.

Gun arming times with different ammo, cool down rates with different tools with different parts, the turning and velocity for each ship....only by playing the game can you get the feel of it. No tutorial can give you all the information in one go and expect it to stick doing it once. You have to learn by doing and practicing it. And with the player pool as small as it is, it's something that people need to understand and work with.

If the new player truly wants to learn, and you as a veteran do not teach them, it is your failing, not theirs.

*Gets off soapbox, equips chem-spray*

Salutes! o7 <3

You should stay on the soap box.

Hell no, we need to get her a better soapbox!

o7

[Kamoba]

Or a marble podium! 

[Thomas]

I don't think we've ever had issues with a new player that wants to learn. Those are by far the most loved players in all of GoIO.

It would be lovely if every new player applied themselves to become amazing players, but the vast majority are simply here to play a game, not devote hours to learning game mechanics.


What I would like, and I think what the OP and others want is a way to give new players a solid foundation on which to start playing the game, delivered in a relatively simple fashion. I wouldn't expect them to be able to watch a five minute video and be masters of chemical spray rotations, pilot tools, buff timing, damage types and shot timing, arming time, etc etc. But to know enough so that when those things start showing up, they're able to pick up on them effectively instead of it being a completely foreign concept.



When people first come into the game, they fail to realize that different parts of the ship are in fact different parts of the ship; and assume the whole ship is a single giant hit box. They don't understand damage types and how those affect different parts of the ship. So they won't time their explosive shots to hit the hull and they'll aim the gat at the balloon and the carronade at the armor. They won't try to snipe out guns with the artemis or field gun. They'll keep the flamethrower fixed on a single part of the ship instead of trying to torch everything.

They don't understand the very basics of chemical spray (which is that it -prevents- fire for a period of time, not good at putting out fires) so they can't understand about chemical spray cycles. They don't understand the difference between repair and rebuild and will start malleting away at the broken armor. They don't understand cooldown times so they'll mallet the balloon with 10 stacks of fire and sit there for the remaining 9 seconds trying to put the fire out, or continuing to hit it until it's fully repaired before running off to the next thing.

I won't even begin to list the things they don't know about piloting, because it's literally everything about piloting (ever seen a new player jump on the helm for a first time and the ship starts going up and down as they blatantly ignore the tool tip on how to operate the throttle?)


So the most basic of basics I feel that new players need to help them get off to a good start and allow them to learn the more advanced techniques on their own is:

Cooldowns
Damage types
Ship components
Some Tool effects
Weapon Basics (long-short range, general ammo effects, damage type)
Teamwork


Teamwork is the most important, but not many people pay attention to it. I don't like seeing players that try to do everything on the ship, from flying to shooting and fixing. Or having all three crew members run to the hull when it breaks, then all of them run to the balloon when that breaks, and no one stays near the hull as your ship continues to take damage. Getting them to realize and appreciate that there are other people on the ship and they need to work together and divide the labor instead of trying to handle everything.

[Arturo Sanchez]

If the new player truly wants to learn, and you as a veteran do not teach them, it is your failing, not theirs.

lol that is the dumbest bollocks I ever heard (check that privilege). No person has any obligation to do that. If a person wants to learn, they will ask questions, they will read manuals, they will google wikis, they will find read forum posts, etc.

It's like that time college students complained that they had to do RESEARCH BY THEMSELVES to get all the info needed for a paper and gather citations for it.

You expected your lecturer to do that all for you?

[MightyKeb]

If the new player truly wants to learn, and you as a veteran do not teach them, it is your failing, not theirs.

lol that is the dumbest bollocks I ever heard (check that privilege). No person has any obligation to do that. If a person wants to learn, they will ask questions, they will read manuals, they will google wikis, they will find read forum posts, etc.

It's like that time college students complained that they had to do RESEARCH BY THEMSELVES to get all the info needed for a paper and gather citations for it.

You expected your lecturer to do that all for you?

Hearing knowledge from your elderly generally tends to involve nothing more than a direct question and an even more direct answer, while googling a wiki about it will give literally every information and might take more time.


"If they really wanna learn then they SHOULD look at the more detailed source"

Well, do they need to know how much damage a carronade does in its wiki page? Or is it simpler to know that it two shots balloons and does roughly 45% the DPS of a gatling on armor? Does the wiki say that in a blenderfish vs blenderfish you can pop one shot into their carro, another in their balloon and let your captain ram it down?


Some things can just be grasped with basics, and some things arent mentioned in the wiki.

I'm not trying to defend this "obligation" to teach here so  dont lash out on me with it, I'm only defending why its a good idea to teach. Besides, GOI has a small playerbase, if you wanna keep the game alive as long asyou can you and every veteran should oblige themselves to teach.

[Kamoba]

If the new player truly wants to learn, and you as a veteran do not teach them, it is your failing, not theirs.

lol that is the dumbest bollocks I ever heard (check that privilege). No person has any obligation to do that. If a person wants to learn, they will ask questions, they will read manuals, they will google wikis, they will find read forum posts, etc.

It's like that time college students complained that they had to do RESEARCH BY THEMSELVES to get all the info needed for a paper and gather citations for it.

You expected your lecturer to do that all for you?

Such a hypocrite, spewing foul mouthed insults towards other people, yet you are the one who claims to -Tell new players what to do- and the one who frequently complains when (you the self proclaimed vet) the new players fail to listen to you doing exactly what you claim to be "Bollocks."

Stop and think to yourself, Sarabelle tells a line which makes you look like one of the good guys, because you (by your claims) are not failing as a vet according to her statement..
And then you tell her that's bollocks?

Quit the verbal diarrhoea, think before you post or don't post at all.

[DJ Logicalia]

If the new player truly wants to learn, and you as a veteran do not teach them, it is your failing, not theirs.

lol that is the dumbest bollocks I ever heard (check that privilege). No person has any obligation to do that. If a person wants to learn, they will ask questions, they will read manuals, they will google wikis, they will find read forum posts, etc.

It's like that time college students complained that they had to do RESEARCH BY THEMSELVES to get all the info needed for a paper and gather citations for it.

You expected your lecturer to do that all for you?

I hate to pull the "I have more matches than you" card, but I have more matches than you, and when you have a player who wants to learn and you don't teach them, you're doing a disservice to the community. I've seen so many great new players who stick around and learn the game well just because I spent a few matches explaining things. New players who want to learn are what keep this game alive. I'm beginning to think you just hate new players all around, whether they are uncooperative or otherwise, and that attitude is going to kill GoI

In short:

[Thomas]

Is this how CAs are supposed to act?

And as feisty as Maxy worded it, he does make a good point, and it's a point that's been brought up over and over again.

There is no obligation for an experienced player to teach a novice, and there shouldn't be. This is why not every player has teaching or CA privileges, they don't want to do this, they just want to play the game. Whether this is no fun for them or they hate new players doesn't make a lick of a difference.

Sure it would be nice if every single vet decided to be a helpful and constructive player willing to assist other players, but it's also nice to be able to fart rainbows. Both of these events are equally possible of being realistic.

So let's stop attacking players, take a deep breath, and move back into the realm of actual possibilities.

Having every vet do this is impossible. Having -more- vets do this is entirely possible. How could we make that happen?

[Hoja Lateralus]

when you have a player who wants to learn and you don't teach them, you're doing a disservice to the community

Woah, that's a bit too much of a generalisation, I think. I mean, I'll play the "devil's advocate" for a moment (since this thread turned into Ceres vs. Everyone court battle) and say that regardless of your position as a CA or match count you cannot say that someone as a player is obliged to teach (new) people, and if he/she's not willing to - his doing a disservice. Why? Because veterans, just like new players, many times want just to go and play and have fun - and if they're not willing to teach new players it's their law. It's not like they're kicking children or something, they just want to have a good time with players of their skill, and in that matter I support Ceres because I have similar opinion on the matter. I 'may' sometimes teach but I want to have a safe option to play without dealing with new players, since they are mostly pain in the ass, as of my experience at least. Remember that vets are players and people too!
Also - taking it to 'ad absurdum' argument - following that logic every competetive-level player should spend most of his time teaching, instead of practicing or... just playing. How those selfish bastards can even look at the mirror? We must assure such IMMORAL disgusting people don't reproduce.

(PS. The last two sentences was an irony.)

I think Thomas have a good point with the list of areas that new players tend not to grasp. Also for me it's important to learn 'what' instead of 'why'. I mean, for a long time I was using greased in gatling just because some veteran told me it's the best ammo (later I confirmed it in Wundsalz's guide) - and it was good enough for me.

Also, this is personal note; I think you guys should be more careful with words since you are CA's and (in a way) you are quite representative part of the community. I'm not saying you shouldn't make your arguments, just be careful.

Edit: It turned out that I posted almost the same time as Thomas did. I'm not editing this, just when I mentioned his post I didn't mean the one above, I meant the previous one.

[Lanliss]

While I do believe that the CAs should be a little more careful with their words, I also think the community should too. Jazzhands spits abuse on most of the responses I have seen from him. Since it is the CAs job to police these forums and prevent that kind of abuse, I can understand them turning against him. Both sides could make their points equally well without getting abusive, but the CAs are not going nearly as far as Jazz.

On to the obligation part. Is it required to teach new players? No, but if you want to help keep the community running common sense says you should. There are only so many CAs that can teach new players in the novice element. Everyone doesn't have to, but it would be nice if a few more players could pick up a bit of the slack. It is not required, you can't be banned for simply refusing to teach new players, but there is no reason not to every now and then.